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-   -   What is the problem with Zarco and the KTM bike? (http://motogpforum.com/motogp/25002-what-problem-zarco-ktm-bike.html)

capulet April 4th, 2019 10:47 AM

What is the problem with Zarco and the KTM bike?
 
i'm looking for this topic discussion, but i cannot find one.. refer me to it if i've missed.

some said the KTM tubular chassis & its WP suspension system should be blame.. need to be alter or to change the WP fork to Ohlins..
surely it won't happen.. for at least next few years..

the KTM boss had adviced Zarco (& Tech3 boss to Syahrin) to change their riding style.. Zarco admit he's struggle to adapt, but said he won't change his way of riding..

Pol has 2 years experience with KTM bike, Miguel too I think has been familiar with KTM machine since in moto2 for few years..

what do you think guys, Zarco was perform very good previously with M1 he beat Vale & Maverick few times with 'outdated version' of Yamaha M1..

so here, is it the problem with the new young KTM bike setup..? (i'm not pointing to their engineers though :)
or the Riders should be blame, failed to adapt quickly..?

even Lorenzo seems struggles when he join Duc & now Repsol..

Theo April 4th, 2019 12:42 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with the way they make their bikes, one thing though and that is tubular frames bend more, I think thats the problem for Zarco (1 of my favourite riders). It could also be the problem with Syharin.
I don't agree about Oliveira and the moto2 bike giving him an advantage at this level, the beast handles totally different IMO.

Keshav April 4th, 2019 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capulet (Post 460222)
i'm looking for this topic discussion, but i cannot find one.. refer me to it if i've missed.

some said the KTM tubular chassis & its WP suspension system should be blame.. need to be alter or to change the WP fork to Ohlins..
surely it won't happen.. for at least next few years..

the KTM boss had adviced Zarco (& Tech3 boss to Syahrin) to change their riding style.. Zarco admit he's struggle to adapt, but said he won't change his way of riding..

Pol has 2 years experience with KTM bike, Miguel too I think has been familiar with KTM machine since in moto2 for few years..

what do you think guys, Zarco was perform very good previously with M1 he beat Vale & Maverick few times with 'outdated version' of Yamaha M1..

so here, is it the problem with the new young KTM bike setup..? (i'm not pointing to their engineers though :)
or the Riders should be blame, failed to adapt quickly..?

even Lorenzo seems struggles when he join Duc & now Repsol..

Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges (I don't think so) but Ducati didn't really start to shine until they shelved their own-style chassis and went to a chassis that mirrored those of the Japanese.

Theo April 4th, 2019 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keshav (Post 460224)
Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges (I don't think so) but Ducati didn't really start to shine until they shelved their own-style chassis and went to a chassis that mirrored those of the Japanese.

Well you only had to look at their weld work, it was so crap.

ratdeal April 4th, 2019 01:21 PM

The properties of tubular steel are totally different to an alloy box section chassis. Therefore the feedback is different and the rider has to learn to interpret that feedback.

Once he gets a feel for what the bike is telling him he will improve, however until does he can't provide accurate feedback as to where the machine deficiencies are.

Stoner used to say that the problem with the tubular concept was the the feel varies from one chassis to another making set up difficult between bikes and as a result every new chassis that arrived would require a totally different base set up.

Iamapony April 4th, 2019 01:46 PM

Yeah, all interesting points, except Ducati won the MotoGP championship with a trellis frame. They THEN went to a carbon fiber 'monocoque'. They struggled with it, but it takes time with a new technology, so Stoner suffered. Then along comes Mr. Yellow fangs and he tells Ducati that the carbon fiber is no good and they need to be Yamaha. Ducati, being nice Italian boys listen to this Yellow Italian nonsense, and set themselves back three years in development to appease the shirt salesman.

Ducati has had all this time to perfect the aluminum spar since then. If they had stayed with the carbon fiber, they would have been competitive at least 3 years sooner. Now, the other manufacturers are adding carbon fiber parts. Oh the irony.

Hollywood April 4th, 2019 02:00 PM

with all the talent, money, and resources that KTM has, I would be surprised if they did not have other frame and suspension options being worked on somewhere in their organization.

Keshav April 4th, 2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamapony (Post 460228)
Yeah, all interesting points, except Ducati won the MotoGP championship with a trellis frame. They THEN went to a carbon fiber 'monocoque'. They struggled with it, but it takes time with a new technology, so Stoner suffered. Then along comes Mr. Yellow fangs and he tells Ducati that the carbon fiber is no good and they need to be Yamaha. Ducati, being nice Italian boys listen to this Yellow Italian nonsense, and set themselves back three years in development to appease the shirt salesman.

Ducati has had all this time to perfect the aluminum spar since then. If they had stayed with the carbon fiber, they would have been competitive at least 3 years sooner. Now, the other manufacturers are adding carbon fiber parts. Oh the irony.

The “win factor” was Stoner. Stoner on Bridgestones developed for the Ducati. Agree re: aluminum frame. Who knows - with that going for him he might not have been in such a hurry to go to Honda.

ratdeal April 4th, 2019 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood (Post 460229)
with all the talent, money, and resources that KTM has, I would be surprised if they did not have other frame and suspension options being worked on somewhere in their organization.

They are already testing numerous chassis iterations during the season, but have recently confirmed they will never move away from their current trellis chassis as it is central to the KTM concept and philosophy.

The same story with the in-house suspension brand.

Mick D April 4th, 2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratdeal (Post 460233)
The same story with the in-house suspension brand.

This strategy seems dodgy. Run Ohlins on the bike until you can CONFIRM thru testing that the WPs work at least as well... Honda aint running Showa.


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