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March 29th, 2019, 02:04 AM   #21
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It was Nakamoto San who said that. It would appear they did make that bike. I remember he also said it was ugly.
Too hard to ride and ugly. Sounds like a H.D. fat boy. Apparently, there are actual pictures of the test bike some place. I don't remember ever seeing them.
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If Honda thought this was legal, they would have done it, before. They spend a lot of money in MotoGP and after seeing the Yamaha dildo, I am sure they went to work on a prototype. Either it's all legal or none of it is legal on a swingarm. Leaving the legality of each one to the temperament of one guy seems retarded in a series of this stature.
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March 30th, 2019, 04:40 AM   #22
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Most childish stunt from Honda management. What are they trying to prove? That Aldridge can read the rules written by manufacturers? These rules state clearly, if purpose is improving aerodynamics then it is not legal. If the purpose is something else then it is legal. Period, they wrote the rules, Aldridge is following these rules.

Last edited by Segfault; March 30th, 2019 at 04:42 AM.
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March 30th, 2019, 04:55 AM   #23
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The wild "cost increase" hysteria about aerodynamics is really unfounded.

“I want to underline that Ducati Corse spends roughly 1% of its budget on aerodynamics, so any limitation in this field would have a marginal impact on total racing costs. The costs we sustained in preparing the appeal equates to five days in the wind tunnel. In 2018, for the aerodynamic development of our MotoGP, Ducati Corse spent 10 days in the wind tunnel: so 50% of what we allocate to aerodynamics was spent on that hearing,”

Gigi Dall'Igna

https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/03/29/...he-appeal.html
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Last edited by Keshav; March 30th, 2019 at 05:50 AM.
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March 30th, 2019, 10:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Segfault View Post
Most childish stunt from Honda management. What are they trying to prove? That Aldridge can read the rules written by manufacturers? These rules state clearly, if purpose is improving aerodynamics then it is not legal. If the purpose is something else then it is legal. Period, they wrote the rules, Aldridge is following these rules.
Yeah, well Danny seems a bit naive to believe that appendage is for a lousy seven degrees on the tire. Apparently, he doesn't know much about how hot race tires get and that they may change more than 7 degrees from one corner to the next without any cooling spoiler.

Hot tire warmers will put your tire at about 180. That tire can drop thirty degrees just getting from the pit onto the track. I don't believe seven degrees is going to do squat to save the tire, from my experience. I have charted this kind of tire temperature information, btw.
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March 30th, 2019, 12:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
The wild "cost increase" hysteria about aerodynamics is really unfounded.

“I want to underline that Ducati Corse spends roughly 1% of its budget on aerodynamics, so any limitation in this field would have a marginal impact on total racing costs. The costs we sustained in preparing the appeal equates to five days in the wind tunnel. In 2018, for the aerodynamic development of our MotoGP, Ducati Corse spent 10 days in the wind tunnel: so 50% of what we allocate to aerodynamics was spent on that hearing,”

Gigi Dall'Igna

https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/03/29/...he-appeal.html
Wind tunnel costs vary, from around £200 an hour, to millions over several days when using various changes in equipment. I think Gigi is being disingenuous here, after all 1% of lets say a £250 million budget for their bikes development, staff costs, transport, tools and all the ancillary expenses, isn't chicken feed, plus of course how many did they try out before picking on their current design. They would also have found out that it did have an effect on downforce, after all thats why would you tunnel test it.
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March 30th, 2019, 05:49 PM   #26
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Wind tunnel costs vary, from around £200 an hour, to millions over several days when using various changes in equipment. I think Gigi is being disingenuous here, after all 1% of lets say a £250 million budget for their bikes development, staff costs, transport, tools and all the ancillary expenses, isn't chicken feed, plus of course how many did they try out before picking on their current design. They would also have found out that it did have an effect on downforce, after all thats why would you tunnel test it.
From 200 an hour to millions. That's quite the variable. Also you say 250 million but really - this is pure speculation on your part. If Gigi says it's 1% I have no reason to doubt him. He's never been known to be dishonest before. Whether it's chicken feed or not is immaterial. It's prototype racing. Also you make a great deal of assumptions about secondary costs to do wind tunnel testing. How do you know Ducati doesn't have it's own wind tunnel? Quite a few companies do.
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March 30th, 2019, 07:46 PM   #27
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Repsol Honda reportedly operates on a 60-70 million dollar budget. Where is this quarter of a billion euro figure coming from.
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March 31st, 2019, 03:14 AM   #28
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From 200 an hour to millions. That's quite the variable. Also you say 250 million but really - this is pure speculation on your part. If Gigi says it's 1% I have no reason to doubt him. He's never been known to be dishonest before. Whether it's chicken feed or not is immaterial. It's prototype racing. Also you make a great deal of assumptions about secondary costs to do wind tunnel testing. How do you know Ducati doesn't have it's own wind tunnel? Quite a few companies do.
Yes its a huge variable and I'm applying it across the board from simple designs to the most complex ie aircraft design.
If Ducati have their own wind tunnel that would cost a lot as well, anywhere from a few 1000's to 100 million, Maybe someone who works in aerodynamics could say how much. However take this one for example https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...iew-california They say it could cost billions, but I don't know.
Then there is this https://www.quora.com/How-much-is-th...rd-wind-tunnel Not cheap is it.
So in that respect I doubt if any of the MotoGP manufacturers have a wind tunnel.
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March 31st, 2019, 03:18 AM   #29
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Repsol Honda reportedly operates on a 60-70 million dollar budget. Where is this quarter of a billion euro figure coming from.
Is that in total? ie bike development, salaries, transport, employment costs, flight costs. How much does a MotoGP lorry cost?
The factories that they own, insurance, which I'd guess is very expensive. the list is almost endless in costs, I wonder how much is ignored.
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March 31st, 2019, 05:18 AM   #30
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Yes its a huge variable and I'm applying it across the board from simple designs to the most complex ie aircraft design.
If Ducati have their own wind tunnel that would cost a lot as well, anywhere from a few 1000's to 100 million, Maybe someone who works in aerodynamics could say how much. However take this one for example https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...iew-california They say it could cost billions, but I don't know.
Then there is this https://www.quora.com/How-much-is-th...rd-wind-tunnel Not cheap is it.
So in that respect I doubt if any of the MotoGP manufacturers have a wind tunnel.
You forget - Ducati makes many different vehicles and the cost of owning a wind tunnel would be spread over a multitude of bikes and scooter etc. all of which can benefit from superior aerodynamics. And it wouldn't need to be as big as one used for cars and larger vehicles. So cost comparisons with the world's largest wind tunnel are kind of pointless.
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