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September 25th, 2018, 06:25 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
On one hand, Yamaha's poor results are because Rossi can't develop a bike. On the other hand, Yamaha's good results in the past had nothing to do with Rossi's development skills.

The logic here is amusing.
If we're intended to credit Rossi's mythological ability to give feedback turning the the bike into a winning machine, why would we then not also credit him with the downturn in it's development? Rossi only takes responsibility for the good developments? Where's the logic in that? That's some serious fan boi cherry-picking. Besides, it's not illogical to think his alleged genius at development can have decreased in tandem with his ability to win championships.

See, now I'm amused.
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September 25th, 2018, 06:27 AM   #122
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The "damm" idiot is correct. Yamaha, the company, has a $10 billion market cap. Their share price is 50% higher than it was in 2015 and almost triple what it was in 2012.

Money issues at the factory racing team are different to money issues at the head corporate level, which is something you clearly don't appreciate.
The point was made about the race team, which does seem to be chronically under-resourced, to have had trouble attracting sponsorship, etc, etc.

My whole point was that Honda are backing HRC and VW Audi seem to be backing Ducati Corse more than Yamaha, however financially sound the parent company may be (not nearly as big as Honda afaik and very definitely not as big as VW Audi) are backing Yamaha. Synn as is usual for him side tracked; I thought I was even more or less agreeing with him that Yamaha are being out-engineered at the moment rather than the current bike's slowness being down to Valentino. I was also somewhat aware that the way the Yamaha race team is organised and where they sit under the umbrella of Yamaha as a whole may be structurally problematic.
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September 25th, 2018, 06:58 AM   #123
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I would hazard a guess to say you haven't surmised much wrong from current situations, as detrimental they may be, Rossi is hereby endemnified from any and all negative race performances either past nor future.
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September 25th, 2018, 06:59 AM   #124
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Fuck Yamaha.
Fuck the motogp.
Forget history

Forza Vale.
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September 25th, 2018, 08:17 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
The "damm" idiot is correct. Yamaha, the company, has a $10 billion market cap. Their share price is 50% higher than it was in 2015 and almost triple what it was in 2012.

Money issues at the factory racing team are different to money issues at the head corporate level, which is something you clearly don't appreciate.
I actually have that mouthbreather on ignore and I mean real ignore, not Piefuck ignore, so I totally missed that lol.
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September 25th, 2018, 10:06 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
The point was made about the race team, which does seem to be chronically under-resourced, to have had trouble attracting sponsorship, etc, etc.

My whole point was that Honda are backing HRC and VW Audi seem to be backing Ducati Corse more than Yamaha, however financially sound the parent company may be (not nearly as big as Honda afaik and very definitely not as big as VW Audi) are backing Yamaha. Synn as is usual for him side tracked; I thought I was even more or less agreeing with him that Yamaha are being out-engineered at the moment rather than the current bike's slowness being down to Valentino. I was also somewhat aware that the way the Yamaha race team is organised and where they sit under the umbrella of Yamaha as a whole may be structurally problematic.
You're making the same point as him: that Yamaha's race team has some funding issues (but not Yamaha the company).
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September 25th, 2018, 10:13 AM   #127
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If we're intended to credit Rossi's mythological ability to give feedback turning the the bike into a winning machine,
False premise. I was clearly (re-read the post) referring to the members here that credit Yamaha for anything good about the M1 in the past, and blame Rossi for everything bad about the bike now.

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence understands that each variable in the development cycle needs to be working well to produce a good motorcycle. You need (i) a rider that is able to give good feedback, (ii) a structure that can effectively relay that feedback to the engineers, (iii) engineers with sufficient competence to revise the areas of the bike that need revision to address the feedback, and (iv) sufficient funding to allow competent engineers to actually address solutions in a prompt and accurate fashion.

No-one who comes on here and claims to authoritatively know that the first item I listed above (i.e. Rossi) is the issue is interested in a serious discussion. It is of course possible, but it seems unlikely that they know more than Masao Furusawa and Jeremy Burgess about Rossi's feedback (to be clear, Furusawa said that Rossi was a development "genius"). The only real speculation that can be offered is that Rossi's feedback is no longer as good as it was eight years ago. This is possible, but it's not an intuitive conclusion. He is fast enough to be sitting in third place in the championship, and has accrued the most points since Marquez entered the championship (other than Marquez).
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September 25th, 2018, 10:13 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
The "damm" idiot is correct. Yamaha, the company, has a $10 billion market cap. Their share price is 50% higher than it was in 2015 and almost triple what it was in 2012.

Money issues at the factory racing team are different to money issues at the head corporate level, which is something you clearly don't appreciate.


Since you and bottom feeder basement boy knows so much. Take away the few sponsors they have, then tell the investors and board of directors they want to go racing. If only you 2 have any knowledge of how the corporate world works......
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September 25th, 2018, 10:18 AM   #129
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I actually have that mouthbreather on ignore and I mean real ignore, not Piefuck ignore, so I totally missed that lol.
such a sad little boy you are. but being that you are an
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September 25th, 2018, 11:15 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
False premise. I was clearly (re-read the post) referring to the members here that credit Yamaha for anything good about the M1 in the past, and blame Rossi for everything bad about the bike now.

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence understands that each variable in the development cycle needs to be working well to produce a good motorcycle. You need (i) a rider that is able to give good feedback, (ii) a structure that can effectively relay that feedback to the engineers, (iii) engineers with sufficient competence to revise the areas of the bike that need revision to address the feedback, and (iv) sufficient funding to allow competent engineers to actually address solutions in a prompt and accurate fashion.

No-one who comes on here and claims to authoritatively know that the first item I listed above (i.e. Rossi) is the issue is interested in a serious discussion. It is of course possible, but it seems unlikely that they know more than Masao Furusawa and Jeremy Burgess about Rossi's feedback (to be clear, Furusawa said that Rossi was a development "genius"). The only real speculation that can be offered is that Rossi's feedback is no longer as good as it was eight years ago. This is possible, but it's not an intuitive conclusion. He is fast enough to be sitting in third place in the championship, and has accrued the most points since Marquez entered the championship (other than Marquez).
By your thinking the opinion that Rossi's "genius" for feedback is validated by Furasawa et al. But really, can you picture the same guys publicly saying their #1 marketing tool and Golden Child has of late lost his touch? Just because they haven't issued a press statement to that effect doesn't make it not so. Not exactly the kind of thing you advertise.

Personally - I think it's more up to complacency in R&D and budget issues, and that Rossi's value as a developer is mostly hype. I always believed that, realistically, Rossi, being talented and a proven winner pumped up morale at Yamaha when he jumped ship, that he likely inspired people to do better work.
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