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August 27th, 2018, 04:32 PM   #71
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Well, you know the inside joke to us British ... "Made in Great Britain" ... when it comes to road works the British are the slowest, laziest, and have zero concern over quality of workmanship ...



Don't get me wrong, us Brits can do/make some great things, but when it comes to road works and the laying of Asphalt ... hire an outside source (a little too much "union" involved).

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: Yes I'm a dual national US/UK.
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August 28th, 2018, 01:10 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by robains View Post
Well, you know the inside joke to us British ... "Made in Great Britain" ... when it comes to road works the British are the slowest, laziest, and have zero concern over quality of workmanship ...



Don't get me wrong, us Brits can do/make some great things, but when it comes to road works and the laying of Asphalt ... hire an outside source (a little too much "union" involved).

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: Yes I'm a dual national US/UK.
It's embarrassing, but because the MotoGP lads won't race anywhere in the UK other than Silverstone, that's the track we're stuck with.
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August 28th, 2018, 07:59 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
So what were Yamaha offering Herve other than hanging around till he was replaced?.
A bike that has won races the previous year and is good enough for poles and podiums the current year.

His contract was always crystal clear and for years he was a faithful lapdog. Red Bull money made him a greedy bastard and put on all the charades he did. If you read his French media outbursts, you will see what a politician he is.

As much as I love Oliveira, I look forward to seeing Morbidelli run rings around him on the M1.
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August 29th, 2018, 01:34 AM   #74
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A bike that has won races the previous year and is good enough for poles and podiums the current year.

His contract was always crystal clear and for years he was a faithful lapdog. Red Bull money made him a greedy bastard and put on all the charades he did. If you read his French media outbursts, you will see what a politician he is.

As much as I love Oliveira, I look forward to seeing Morbidelli run rings around him on the M1.
I am sure the Red Bull money was influential, particularly since Herve has said he is near retirement age.

If Yamaha had told him they saw his team as staying involved with them long term, he may well have still have taken the Red Bull money, but you would have some case against him for choosing money over being competitive. Taking the Red Bull money rather than having nothing at all in 2 years is not so open to critcism I would have thought. I have not seen anything anywhere about him being offered assurances or anything else beyond bikes for a limited period by Yamaha, while there has been much publicity all year that there will be a grid spot and Yamaha bikes for a Valentino team on his retirement if he wants same. I am sure the Petronas backing was always in the pipeline for Yamaha, but whether it was ever going to be for Herve's team or whether they were even going to offer to buy him out seems rather less certain.
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Last edited by michaelm; August 29th, 2018 at 08:29 AM.
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August 29th, 2018, 04:30 AM   #75
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I am sure the Red Bull money was influential, particularly since Herve has said he is near retirement age.

If Yamaha had told him they saw his team as staying involved with them long term, he may well have still have taken the Red Bull money, but you would have some case against him for choosing money over being competitive. Taking the Red Bull money rather than having nothing at all in 2 years is not so open to critcism I would have thought. I have not seen anything anywhere about him being offered assurances or anything else beyond bikes for a limited period by Yamaha, while there have been much publicity all year that there will be a grid spot and Yamaha bikes for a Valentino team on his retirement if he wants same. I am sure the Petronas backing was always in the pipeline for Yamaha, but whether it was ever going to be for Herve's team or whether they were even going to offer to buy him out seems rather less certain.
Synn is being totally unreasonable towards Herve. With KTM he has what he always wanted from Yamaha which was a very close working relationship with the factory, 2 full factory bikes, promising riders and sponsorship money. Herve used his hand very well and ensured his teams future after he was told by Yamaha that it was unlikely they would supply 2 satellite teams and if it was down to his team or a Rossi team, he wasn't in with a shot. I'm unsure why Synn thinks that Herve has made a mistake. Anyone with a brain could see that while he might experience a loss in the short term he is gaining in the long term. KTM is coming, make no mistake, next year they have a rider that should show the true potential of their bike and then we can make an informed judgement on where KTM is. It's not like Herve went with Aprilia or even Suzuki, KTMs commitment to the series rivals Honda's.

I still STRONGLY argue that we don't know where the KTM is, I've said it many times but compare Crutchlow, Spies, Zarco, Dovi's results to the results of Espargaro and Smith on the same bike and its night and day.
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August 29th, 2018, 08:33 AM   #76
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Synn is being totally unreasonable towards Herve. With KTM he has what he always wanted from Yamaha which was a very close working relationship with the factory, 2 full factory bikes, promising riders and sponsorship money. Herve used his hand very well and ensured his teams future after he was told by Yamaha that it was unlikely they would supply 2 satellite teams and if it was down to his team or a Rossi team, he wasn't in with a shot. I'm unsure why Synn thinks that Herve has made a mistake. Anyone with a brain could see that while he might experience a loss in the short term he is gaining in the long term. KTM is coming, make no mistake, next year they have a rider that should show the true potential of their bike and then we can make an informed judgement on where KTM is. It's not like Herve went with Aprilia or even Suzuki, KTMs commitment to the series rivals Honda's.

I still STRONGLY argue that we don't know where the KTM is, I've said it many times but compare Crutchlow, Spies, Zarco, Dovi's results to the results of Espargaro and Smith on the same bike and its night and day.
I agree, i wouldn't bet against KTM long term, particularly with Red Bull money backing them. Both are hardly new to motor sports success either.
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August 29th, 2018, 09:10 AM   #77
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Here’s the uncomfortable truth about Tech Twat that no one here wants to talk about.
Herve never wanted a “closer working relationship” with Yamaha. That’s a narrative he made up after he signed up for Red Bull money.

He never wanted it because he could never afford it. From a budget perspective, his team is closer to Aspar and Avintia rather than Pramac. LCR, who has a similar budget to him had to run a single bike for years even when their rider was paid by HRC. That’s what it will cost to run top run machinery. What Herve got was the best of what his money could get him. And a year old Yamaha is a pretty damn good bike.

I love KTM and Oliveira , but Herve is in for a world of humiliation on track, at least in the mid term. I doubt he will care though, lazing around Monaco in his new Red Bull yacht.
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August 29th, 2018, 09:30 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Here’s the uncomfortable truth about Tech Twat that no one here wants to talk about.
Herve never wanted a “closer working relationship” with Yamaha. That’s a narrative he made up after he signed up for Red Bull money.

He never wanted it because he could never afford it. From a budget perspective, his team is closer to Aspar and Avintia rather than Pramac. LCR, who has a similar budget to him had to run a single bike for years even when their rider was paid by HRC. That’s what it will cost to run top run machinery. What Herve got was the best of what his money could get him. And a year old Yamaha is a pretty damn good bike.

I love KTM and Oliveira , but Herve is in for a world of humiliation on track, at least in the mid term. I doubt he will care though, lazing around Monaco in his new Red Bull yacht.
You are essentially agreeing it was a no-brainer for Herve then, he has got from KTM and Red Bull what he had always wanted but could/would never have from Yamaha, after wide publicity to the effect that he possibly wouldn’t even have a bike from them in 2 years, and some might consider if understandable if he was peeved by what looked pretty much like an arrogant assumption he would stay with Yamaha in the short term.

If you love KTM and Oliveira you should be happy, KTM have gained Zarco and what has looked the best run satellite team in recent years.
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Last edited by michaelm; August 29th, 2018 at 09:34 AM.
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August 29th, 2018, 09:41 AM   #79
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It was a no-brainer for Herve - except from a performance perspective. A one-year old factory Yamaha is still a very good bike, and better than any KTM.
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August 29th, 2018, 11:56 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
You are essentially agreeing it was a no-brainer for Herve then, he has got from KTM and Red Bull what he had always wanted but could/would never have from Yamaha, after wide publicity to the effect that he possibly wouldn’t even have a bike from them in 2 years, and some might consider if understandable if he was peeved by what looked pretty much like an arrogant assumption he would stay with Yamaha in the short term.

If you love KTM and Oliveira you should be happy, KTM have gained Zarco and what has looked the best run satellite team in recent years.
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
It was a no-brainer for Herve - except from a performance perspective. A one-year old factory Yamaha is still a very good bike, and better than any KTM.
It comes down to short vs long-term goals. KTM may not offer up sexy results next year, but has great potential down the road, and the money to keep a loyal, experienced crew and hire the hot new talent when it appears.
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