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July 5th, 2018, 08:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
This is all stuff most of us have debated for years, but itís good to see the narrative is slowly starting to change.

MotoGP: ?Making The Case For Marc Marquez Being The GOAT (Greatest Of All Time)
He very well may become the GOAT. He still has a lot to do before he is, though.
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July 5th, 2018, 10:11 AM   #52
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[QUOTE=RCV600RR;455118
Rossi = 61 wins (63.5% starts)
[/QUOTE]
Your numbers are WAY off. You redo them before I do, m'kay?

In a similar argument from two years ago:

Stoner races motogp
15 17 18 13 18 18 16 = 115
38 wins
.33

Lorenzo
14 18 18 17 18 15 18 17 17 = 152
43 wins
.28

Rossi
14 18 18 18 18 17 14 17 18 18 17 17 16 16 16 16 16 = 284
88 wins
0.31

Rossi only has one more win since then, so his percentage is even lower.
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July 5th, 2018, 10:13 AM   #53
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The numbers are not off. They are a comparison of the riders after 96 races (which is how many MM has contested).
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July 5th, 2018, 11:04 AM   #54
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Still not following.
Marquez has 98 premier starts and 39 wins
Just to make it easy, let's use Rossi's first 97, since that makes it even years.

MM
18 18 18 18 18 8 = 98
6 13 5 5 6 4 = 39
98 39 .397
Let's take away a win and make it 97 races and 38 wins.
.391

Rossi
16 16 16 16 16 17 = 97
2 11 11 9 9 11 = 53
.546

The big win numbers will probably never be seen again, unless the rules are changed back. MM is constantly on the edge to lead the championship. No cruising around for him.

And why is Doohan absent from these statistics?
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July 5th, 2018, 11:43 AM   #55
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There is no truer stat than head to head and there is this wonderful sample size of 5 1/2 seasons . What Rossi did against the likes of Biaggi and Gibernau has no bearing on what he has done against Marquez himself. It even throws out the Ducati years as Rossi has been on his beloved Yamaha the entire time Marc has been in GP and in that time the Yamaha has been the better bike in 13, 15, 16 and the better part of 17. Letís just imagine for a minute if Marquezís main competition for the last 5 1/2 years had been Dani and Dovi which really isnít fair to Dani since he has more wins himself than Biaggi and Gibernau combined. The article is about pointing out how Rossi came across those numbers and anyone who thinks it coincidence that Rossiís numbers fell off a cliff after the ban of the SNS and the infusion of talent starting in 06 is kidding themselves. The real Rossi is much closer to the 09 to today figures since every rider has been on the same rubber. The more you look, the less there is for debate at all, Marquez is head and shoulders above Rossi
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July 5th, 2018, 01:18 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
Still not following.
Marquez has 98 premier starts and 39 wins
Just to make it easy, let's use Rossi's first 97, since that makes it even years.

MM
18 18 18 18 18 8 = 98
6 13 5 5 6 4 = 39
98 39 .397
Let's take away a win and make it 97 races and 38 wins.
.391

Rossi
16 16 16 16 16 17 = 97
2 11 11 9 9 11 = 53
.546

The big win numbers will probably never be seen again, unless the rules are changed back. MM is constantly on the edge to lead the championship. No cruising around for him.

And why is Doohan absent from these statistics?
Thanks.

Mick's win numbers weren't that impressive early in his career (due to injuries from 92 that affected his title run that year, and that affected him well into 93). He really started destroying the opposition in 94. He's unique in the sense that his win figures were much stronger in the latter half of his GP career versus the first half of his GP career (again, largely due to injuries, but also due to coming up against Rainey, KS34, Lawson, Gardner etc.).
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July 5th, 2018, 01:26 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
The article is about pointing out how Rossi came across those numbers and anyone who thinks it coincidence that Rossi’s numbers fell off a cliff after the ban of the SNS and the infusion of talent starting in 06 is kidding themselves.
He won two titles after the SNS, actually. And he won two titles before SNS (i.e. 125cc and 250cc, where he was the tallest bloke on the grid). So 4/9 titles were not on SNS.

Also, a 35 year old Rossi beat a 22 year old MM, head to head, in 2015...without SNS. I wonder if a 35 year old MM could beat a 22 year old Rossi? We'll see how good he is at that age. It will be interesting!
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July 5th, 2018, 03:45 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
He won two titles after the SNS, actually. And he won two titles before SNS (i.e. 125cc and 250cc, where he was the tallest bloke on the grid). So 4/9 titles were not on SNS.

Also, a 35 year old Rossi beat a 22 year old MM, head to head, in 2015...without SNS. I wonder if a 35 year old MM could beat a 22 year old Rossi? We'll see how good he is at that age. It will be interesting!
1 out of 6 years Rossi will have beaten Marc in points (not wins or titles) , the other 5 will have resulted in championships for Marc to 0 for Rossi. This is the 10th year n Rossiícareer where riders have been on equal rubber and Rossiís numbers n that timeframe are pretty unextraordinary and 6 of his titles came with a tire advantage. Actually all 7 did because 09 he had a huge data advantage on the Bridgestones. Once that last advantage dried up he has 12 wins and 0 titles in 9 1/2 seasons which actually puts him in comparison to Dovi, not Marc.
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July 5th, 2018, 03:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
1 out of 6 years Rossi will have beaten Marc in points (not wins or titles) , the other 5 will have resulted in championships for Marc to 0 for Rossi. This is the 10th year n Rossiícareer where riders have been on equal rubber and Rossiís numbers n that timeframe are pretty unextraordinary and 6 of his titles came with a tire advantage. Actually all 7 did because 09 he had a huge data advantage on the Bridgestones. Once that last advantage dried up he has 12 wins and 0 titles in 9 1/2 seasons which actually puts him in comparison to Dovi, not Marc.
Do you discredit or trivialize those who won titles with a tiered tire system in the 500cc era?
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July 5th, 2018, 03:50 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
1 out of 6 years Rossi will have beaten Marc in points (not wins or titles) , the other 5 will have resulted in championships for Marc to 0 for Rossi.
That's a non-sequitur though. Your point was about Rossi needing SNS to be competitive.

Marc is simply an awesome talent in his prime.

Last edited by RCV600RR; July 5th, 2018 at 03:54 PM.
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