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July 4th, 2018, 01:13 AM   #11
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I don't know, mate. I think that the dominance Marc has shown is in a time when the bikes are really close to each other in terms of performance and he has been the deciding factor.
For me Vale's longevity is what get's him a place in the GOAT discussion.
Marc does things on a bike that nobody has ever been able to do.
Age for age I really cannot see anyone beating Marc except Casey (if he got some air between them) and maybe Jarno Saarinen.
Oh, I agree fully, I am a MM supporter, he is an incredible rider. I just feel that for their era, each rider has displayed dominance that few have matched or exceeded. The rules and culture at the time dictated how they went about it. The argument that they had success due to an unfair advantage does not address the question of "what would they have done in this era?" Rossi's age and his performance at this stage makes me believe that he would have been just as successful as a 22 year old in this era.
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July 4th, 2018, 01:22 AM   #12
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As good as Marquez is I still place Stoner above him on shear skills on a bike. Stoner knew how to do things on a bike and how to operate the machine to get round inadequacies. Marquez is getting there though.
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July 4th, 2018, 01:54 AM   #13
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As good as Marquez is I still place Stoner above him on shear skills on a bike. Stoner knew how to do things on a bike and how to operate the machine to get round inadequacies. Marquez is getting there though.
Stoner. With some more time would have a greater legitimacy in the argument. He retired too early, not for him, but for the debate. He had a skill set unmatched, he can still punt one of these GP machines at record or near record pace in a test years after hanging the helmet. He is great. He did have a peculiar style and knack to ride a comparatively non competitive bike to wins.

Had he hung around, we could have measured him against Marc, whom I believe has a hand and fingertips on the GOAT label.

I do believe Marc would not have been as dominant in his first two seasons, likely still won the WC's, but stoner would have brought more competition to the table.
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July 4th, 2018, 02:02 AM   #14
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Stoner had plenty of time. And nobody new machines like him. End of.
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July 4th, 2018, 03:29 AM   #15
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Stoner had plenty of time. And nobody new machines like him. End of.
He didn't hang around long enough. Yeah he had an uncanny skill, so does Marquez. Marquez is in the convo, stoner ain't. If he had measured himself against Marc, there'd be more to argue. He didn't. Stoner is great. Marquez may be the greatest. So far.
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July 4th, 2018, 03:38 AM   #16
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Marquez is a great rider. There’s no arguing that.
However, he jumped on a championship winning bike, won more championships and stayed on that bike.

When Rossi mounted the M1 at Welkom in 2004, no one expected him to win the race, let alone the championship. Let me know when Marquez does that. Then let’s talk GOATdom.
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July 4th, 2018, 03:44 AM   #17
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Marquez is a great rider. There’s no arguing that.
However, he jumped on a championship winning bike, won more championships and stayed on that bike.

When Rossi mounted the M1 at Welkom in 2004, no one expected him to win the race, let alone the championship. Let me know when Marquez does that. Then let’s talk GOATdom.
Eddie Lawson. He and Mike Hailwood could ride any bike. Rossi didn’t prove able to do so, and MM hasn’t yet as you say.

Last edited by michaelm; July 4th, 2018 at 03:47 AM.
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July 4th, 2018, 04:04 AM   #18
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Marquez is a great rider. Thereís no arguing that.
However, he jumped on a championship winning bike, won more championships and stayed on that bike.

When Rossi mounted the M1 at Welkom in 2004, no one expected him to win the race, let alone the championship. Let me know when Marquez does that. Then letís talk GOATdom.
I agree that Rossi at Welkom was a defining moment in his career. But I don't agree that because Marc has been on honda, a good bike every year, that he should be discredited. Bottom line is Marc does things on a regular base that no other rider can pull off on their luckiest day. Not even Stoner. Marc isn't just the GOAT he is the new and improved GMO GOAT.
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July 4th, 2018, 04:15 AM   #19
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How would Rossi have gone going to the m1 with control tyres and limited testing? Maybe something similar to what happened when he went to Ducati?
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July 4th, 2018, 04:26 AM   #20
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How would Rossi have gone going to the m1 with control tyres and limited testing? Maybe something similar to what happened when he went to Ducati?
Ended both years as the best rider of a dog shit bike?
Yes, he would have.
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