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June 30th, 2018, 09:39 PM   #11
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While having Stoner was a huge factor in that 2007 title victory, I think they really went all in on the 800cc engine. It simply outpowered HRC and Yamaha where it needed to do so and Stoner did the rest of the work to make up for the chassis deficiencies. Still a remarkable achievement considering the scale of the teams they were up against.
They certainly did have a more powerful engine that year, particularly compared with the spring valve Yamaha, the desmo valve Ducati I understand having an efficiency advantage in what was essentially a fuel economy formula. Honda didn't have much to complain about as I gather it was they who basically provided the major impetus for the new formula.

Ducati were also purported to have such a major electronics advantage that the bike rode itself, which was far from the case, the electronics I suspect merely converting a bike that was completely unrideable to one which was almost unrideable. The initial iteration of the GP08 with the new 2008 engine was pretty much completely unrideable even for Stoner on the tighter European tracks, and they had to revert to the 2007 engine if you recall, although Stoner also had an early season DNF due to an engine letting go. I remember Nicky saying when he first got on the GP08 at the post-season test that however much Ducati were paying Stoner it wasn't enough.

They are not such an underdog now with the German money, but as I said I don't think they deserved to be chided for looking for innovative solutions when they were an artisanal operation as was the case for much of their tenure in motogp. Certainly they started from scratch with Bridgestone when Michelins were the go if you were in the top tier of the teams/riders supplied by Michelin, but were only allowed to run with the tire co-developed completely within the rules and spirit of the sport, which was closer to a prototype series back then, for 1 year after achieving parity or better with Michelin in 2007 following the demise of SNS tires at the end of the 2006 season, the control tire being more or less the consequence of that bolt from the blue 2007 title win.
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Last edited by michaelm; June 30th, 2018 at 11:01 PM.
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July 2nd, 2018, 02:11 AM   #12
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They are not such an underdog now with the German money....
The Germas are drawing money from Ducati, not pouring money in. Audi acquired a profitable company, that is doing better every year. Ducati had a profit of 750-800 million euros in 2016 and 2017 (something like 7-8% of total Group profits). For Ducati, there have been other advantages in being owned by a big automotive group, like access to some advanced R&D resources (which however are all geared towards cars, not bikes) and, most importantly, sound industrial planning.
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July 2nd, 2018, 03:00 AM   #13
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The Germas are drawing money from Ducati, not pouring money in. Audi acquired a profitable company, that is doing better every year. Ducati had a profit of 750-800 million euros in 2016 and 2017 (something like 7-8% of total Group profits). For Ducati, there have been other advantages in being owned by a big automotive group, like access to some advanced R&D resources (which however are all geared towards cars, not bikes) and, most importantly, sound industrial planning.
Sure, you have always been extremely well informed about Ducati, and German money was a poor choice of phrase, I too had mainly meant the engineering and other resources of a major industrial concern. It would seem Ducati has been a good investment for them, and no wonder they have held onto Ducati during their travails, and fortunately for the sport they probably appreciate the value of the sporting heritage to the brand. My point was more about how remarkable it was that Preziosi et al at Ducati Corse which was pretty much an artisanal concern came up with a bike that could beat Honda and Yamaha in 2007 whomever the rider, and that far from being cynical rule benders as was being suggested they have for the most part been strongly disadvantaged. That said I am not sad to see wings go.
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July 2nd, 2018, 04:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
The Germas are drawing money from Ducati, not pouring money in. Audi acquired a profitable company, that is doing better every year. Ducati had a profit of 750-800 million euros in 2016 and 2017 (something like 7-8% of total Group profits). For Ducati, there have been other advantages in being owned by a big automotive group, like access to some advanced R&D resources (which however are all geared towards cars, not bikes) and, most importantly, sound industrial planning.
They make a lot of it selling T shirts though.
Just thought Iíd point it out, given this forumís dislike for the T shirt revenue model.
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July 2nd, 2018, 05:15 AM   #15
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They make a lot of it selling T shirts though.
Just thought I’d point it out, given this forum’s dislike for the T shirt revenue model.
No doubt they make a fortune out of Ducati branded gear, which goes far beyond T shirts and doubtless involves very high mark-ups. As I recall Tom Cruise bought one of the high priced supposedly based on the race bike Desmosedici RR bikes produced post the 2007 title win. I browsed the Ducati merchandise shop at Bologna airport myself I have to admit.

Last edited by michaelm; July 2nd, 2018 at 05:18 AM.
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July 2nd, 2018, 05:22 AM   #16
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There's no mass damper. Period.

This fairytale was started by the dumbass Mat Oxley, a frustrated rider wannabe engineer with blogger skills.

He has echoed this bullcrap together with some others wannabe engineers. It makes no sense for Ducati, it's not allowed in rules, and the Desmo riders never complained about chattering since 2012. There's no evidence Ducati has one, zero evidence. Zero point in having one. And it's simply not allowed.

But even with a clear shot from the salad box opened, which one can see there is nothing more than electronic modules moved on that site in order to make enough room for the new aero hull, all those wannabe stay fighting with the image to support their vanities.

Last edited by gui22a; July 2nd, 2018 at 05:24 AM.
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July 2nd, 2018, 07:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gui22a View Post
There's no mass damper. Period.

This fairytale was started by the dumbass Mat Oxley, a frustrated rider wannabe engineer with blogger skills.

He has echoed this bullcrap together with some others wannabe engineers. It makes no sense for Ducati, it's not allowed in rules, and the Desmo riders never complained about chattering since 2012. There's no evidence Ducati has one, zero evidence. Zero point in having one. And it's simply not allowed.

But even with a clear shot from the salad box opened, which one can see there is nothing more than electronic modules moved on that site in order to make enough room for the new aero hull, all those wannabe stay fighting with the image to support their vanities.
Given your rather detailed assessment of Oxley, I would be interested to know what your credentials are.
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July 2nd, 2018, 08:36 AM   #18
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Given your rather detailed assessment of Oxley, I would be interested to know what your credentials are.
Credentials can't save you from ignorance.

Actually, with all his credentials, Oxley can't tell you what a simple equation of motion is without spending 20 minutes on google.
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July 2nd, 2018, 08:47 AM   #19
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Credentials can't save you from ignorance.

Actually, with all his credentials, Oxley can't tell you what a simple equation of motion is without spending 20 minutes on google.
Ok, internet Ph.D man.
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July 2nd, 2018, 09:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gui22a View Post
There's no mass damper. Period.

This fairytale was started by the dumbass Mat Oxley, a frustrated rider wannabe engineer with blogger skills.

He has echoed this bullcrap together with some others wannabe engineers. It makes no sense for Ducati, it's not allowed in rules, and the Desmo riders never complained about chattering since 2012. There's no evidence Ducati has one, zero evidence. Zero point in having one. And it's simply not allowed.

But even with a clear shot from the salad box opened, which one can see there is nothing more than electronic modules moved on that site in order to make enough room for the new aero hull, all those wannabe stay fighting with the image to support their vanities.
I do remember the litre of extra fuel thing in 2007.
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