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June 19th, 2018, 04:10 AM   #601
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I respect that. I just disagree with how much this is due to white privilege or the lack of. Its obvious that this experience has helped make you who you are, and you definitely don't come off as racist.
I have been there many times, and there is terrible racism against Mexicans and those of Mexican extraction in Souhern California. Most of my time there in the last 25 years has been spent in Orange County, a nice part of the world btw, and perhaps I should not generalise from experiences there, but I again won’t share personal vignettes for fear of offending those of multiple so called races.
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June 19th, 2018, 04:11 AM   #602
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The staff reaction may not have been the same, but again the elderly couple in question are exercising racism.
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June 19th, 2018, 04:13 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I have been there many times, and there is terrible racism against Mexicans and those of Mexican extraction in Souhern California. Most of my time there in the last 25 years has been spent in Orange County, a nice part of the world btw, and perhaps I should not generalise from experiences there, but I again won’t share personal vignettes for fear of offending those of multiple so called races.
I spent a couple winters in HB in my early 20's. The nicer places are where white privilege is much more prominent.
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June 19th, 2018, 04:14 AM   #604
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The staff reaction may not have been the same, but again the elderly couple in question are exercising racism.
Absolutely and the staff allowing their request is white privilege.
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June 19th, 2018, 04:24 AM   #605
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The nicer places are where white privilege is much more prominent.
Exactly.
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June 19th, 2018, 04:41 AM   #606
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Every society will have people of privilege, whether that is based on race, caste, religion, tribe or class and I don't dispute for a second that it goes on. But I think it is a bit too much of a generalisation to say that ALL white people have white privilege.
Having said that, there is one group who do have privilege regardless of their background and that's good looking people.
If someone drops a racial slur on you in public then people will, rightfully, get up in their face. But if they say that you have a face like a bulldog licking piss off a baboons ass, then you're all on your lonesome with that.
On top of that, there are no support groups for ugly people and even if there was, no one would would join.
The final insult is that ugly bastards like me are in the majority. Go figure.....
Edited to add that this doesn't apply to Italy because you're all good looking.

Last edited by McZee; June 19th, 2018 at 04:49 AM.
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June 19th, 2018, 05:46 AM   #607
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Good points in your post, but I'd like to speak to this, which was directed at my post, which I believe you do not fully understand.

My most critical experiences in life, when things were most assuredly not easy, never had a tinge of "white privilege" sprinkled in the mix. The men I worked with and depended on and had the good fortune to be with were a mix of races, colors and creeds. We all came up in the same exact system, were all afforded the same opportunities and rose or fell depending on our merit, hard work, determination and application of our given skill set.

I operate from a place of experience when I say "your merit." That's my experience. People are made or broken by their drive and determination. Blaming every bump in the rod on a mass white-man driven conspiracy or the Old Boy network is easy, but in reality, it is a cop out of the highest order.

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

I also can tell you that never once, when one of the men I operated with was in trouble, did the color of my skin, his skin, or the next mans skin EVER come into play when action was taken. Same goes for when it was time for promotion (or demotion).

That's my experience. Maybe it isn't the same as the average Joe and I do not pretend to know your experiences. For me, merit is a huge part of life and a huge part of why you rise or fall.
Respectfully - what you describe sounds great, but it is a very limited sampling of the greater reality. Colonialism and Imperialism which to some sound like something from a distant past, are still very much a part of what shapes, or more importantly, distorts the reality of people in all cultures.

You only have to look at any number of recent periods in history to see examples of this. In India the British believed it was their god given destiny to rule the native population because they were white and had guns. They were able to do it with impunity, with no fear of censure from peer nations, because all their peers - were white. Same dynamic permitted Americans, or should I say Europeans, to steal living human beings from Africa who they made do all the work they felt was beneath them.

That non-whites are overcharged for housing and home insurance, charged higher interest rates on loans and turned down on job applications, in favor of less qualified whites is not a myth. These are things that have been proven time and again. White people not having to be concerned with all the distinct disadvantages of race prejudice are privileged to have a giant advantage. Maybe White Advantage - would be more accurate expression to use.

If anyone ever needed a less deniable example, the most glaring one I can think of, is our current president. Compared to Obama, who was educated, a teacher of constitutional law at Harvard, who was fought at every turn by Republicans on issues meant to benefit the entire country, our current president is a certifiable moron hated by 90% of Republican politicians who trash talk him behind his back, yet nonetheless pay public lip-service to him and try to spin and soft-soap his paranoid ravings on Twitter. No black politician could ever hope to do the things he does and stay in office.

Maybe a more direct example: Back in the day when I was club racing, a buddy of mine came to a race at Loudon and brought with him a young black guy entering his first race ever. We camped our vans side by side and at one point it the day, the newby asked me about getting something like a package of spark plugs from one of the vendors. He'd been to the vendor's trailer and nobody was there. I told him "Dude, just take what you want and leave the money on the counter" He looked at me incredulously and said no way. Sure I told him, it's cool. The anxiety in this kid's face when I suggested he just go and take something from the white guy's trailer so disturbed me - that I couldn't get it out of my head for days. For me going over the Competition Accessories trailer and grabbing what I needed was like nothing. That, is white privilege.

A lot of people have the limited idea that white privilege is just about consciously being an asshole to others and getting away with it. But that's not the whole deal. It's very much about all the stuff we take for granted and never give a thought to, being the same things that keep people of color up at night when you're sleeping.

Hopefully - I didn't come off preachy. Easy to do. BTW - Happy Juneteenth yo.
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Last edited by Keshav; June 19th, 2018 at 09:37 AM.
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June 19th, 2018, 05:48 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spygoat View Post
Good points in your post, but I'd like to speak to this, which was directed at my post, which I believe you do not fully understand.

My most critical experiences in life, when things were most assuredly not easy, never had a tinge of "white privilege" sprinkled in the mix. The men I worked with and depended on and had the good fortune to be with were a mix of races, colors and creeds. We all came up in the same exact system, were all afforded the same opportunities and rose or fell depending on our merit, hard work, determination and application of our given skill set.

I operate from a place of experience when I say "your merit." That's my experience. People are made or broken by their drive and determination. Blaming every bump in the rod on a mass white-man driven conspiracy or the Old Boy network is easy, but in reality, it is a cop out of the highest order.

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

I also can tell you that never once, when one of the men I operated with was in trouble, did the color of my skin, his skin, or the next mans skin EVER come into play when action was taken. Same goes for when it was time for promotion (or demotion).

That's my experience. Maybe it isn't the same as the average Joe and I do not pretend to know your experiences. For me, merit is a huge part of life and a huge part of why you rise or fall.
Thanks for reply. I'm glad you've had an encouraging experience, sounds like you were in the military. I've had a similar experience, though I've also had others too.


(Nice bike btw, love the exhaust).

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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June 19th, 2018, 02:09 PM   #609
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(Nice bike btw, love the exhaust).
Thanks man, that's my therapy machine right there! lol.
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June 19th, 2018, 09:44 PM   #610
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Thanks man, that's my therapy machine right there! lol.
Yep, you never see a bike in the client's section of a psychiatrist's car park.
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