MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree508Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
June 18th, 2018, 10:04 PM   #591
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by payne by name View Post
I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't exist and is just another bullshit term for self entitled folks to pass off everything negative that happens to them (not getting that job, getting less fries, getting cut up in traffic etc) on some master plan hatched up by evil whiteys rather than the failings in themselves.

White people promoting it are just virtuous fools attempting to ingratiate themselves to ethnic minorities but ultimately demeaning them by implying that they are inferior because they can't be treated with the equal respect that they can make it or break it entirely on their own.

'There, there black man, you didn't make it because us nasty crackers tied an arm behind your back. Allow us to help you out with some positive discrimination because you couldn't succeed without our assistance'.
It's obvious no amount of evidence or logic would convince you otherwise, you've made up your mind "it doesn't exist" (a rather stunning assertion, I bet you also think "the rule of 'law' is some sacred notion. May I direct you to read about western imperialism of the 18 and 19 hundreds...) notwithstanding, I think the quote below speaks to the notion of "white privileged".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spygoat View Post
Whatever happened to doing your best and standing on your own merit?
Sounds great, who is going to argue with that? I particularly like the notion that at one time 'merit' was the sole measure of a person's worth, station, and opportunities in life. Almost sounds like we need to 'make merit great again', emphasis in "again". It sounds nice to say this above merit, unfortunately it has never actually existed.



First of all Payne (and Spygoat) I don't 'feel' a person of color such as myself would be the best person to debate it with you, though ironically I'd be in the best position to describe it. But apparently neither is a white guy like Mdub. I do think it's futile, so I'll just keep it short given Spygoat's logic, which is used to advance your belief but falls short in reality, which is precisely the point about privileged.

In short, it would be great if: "... doing your best and standing on your own merit" was the ultimate gauge. You ever heard the idiom, 'it's not what you know, it's who you know'? There is an element of 'privilege' there that speaks to the notion I'm contending, it's of a similar vein. Your assertion is, this doesn't exist! The reality of course is despite your beliefs in it or your disbelief about it has absolutely no bearing. It's actually quite similar to declaring, round earth does not exist! The earth doesn't become flat because you don't believe it. As I said, logic, evidence, and explanation is futile perhaps, you sound rather unmovable on this point, I would only ask you to start reading about western imperialism and hope you make the connections to the current reality of race and privileged and implicit bias that comes with it.

This actually reminds me of the 'real' history over the rights and 'privileges' as defined and recognized by law. That's right, the rights and 'privileges' of being white as a matter of 'the rule of law'. I donít know where you're from Payne, but perhaps you could familiarize yourself with the way the acknowledgment and recognition of 'who is white' has changed over time (which that fact speaks to the crux of this notion) because this had (and has) real consequence. There are several cases in American law where it was argued in court (hence my reference to the "rule of law" point I alluded to above); but the case that was most memorable to me was the one used by a middle eastern man who argued he was in fact 'white' because he was from the same region Jesus Christ is from, and God knows he is white, particularly with then (and not so dissimilar now) established American Christian ethos. Case closed, you middle eastern sir are most definitely white then, entitled by law as of this court case to the rights and 'privileges' of other whites! Which of course meant 'non-whites' were entitled to no such privileged. Isn't that odd, but it doesn't exist, why would something that doesn't exist need to be contested in court?

I said I'm probably not the best person to debate this with you because, well....some of my best friends are white. Ha! (No really, they are.)

I should say, I think you may be protesting 'white man's guilt' with 'white privileged' though it does sound a bit like 'white man's burden.'

(I'll get my coat).

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Last edited by Jumkie; June 18th, 2018 at 10:07 PM.
Jumkie is offline  
 
June 18th, 2018, 11:16 PM   #592
Senior Member
 
Holypuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Northern Italy

Posts: 451
Likes: 383

I Ride: Honda CRF250 (modified for Dirt Track)
Fun fact: I would have never foreseen that this thread started by myself would have got this much attention so I feel even more embarassed about my typing mistake in the thread title
Furiosa and Spygoat like this.
Holypuck is online now  
June 19th, 2018, 12:03 AM   #593
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2015
From: New Zealand

Posts: 807
Likes: 285

I Ride: An R1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Fun fact: I would have never foreseen that this thread started by myself would have got this much attention so I feel even more embarassed about my typing mistake in the thread title
You started a thread about some fella called Lorenzo and as is the way of things on here it took on a life of its own....
pyeman is offline  
June 19th, 2018, 12:14 AM   #594
Senior Member
 
Holypuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Northern Italy

Posts: 451
Likes: 383

I Ride: Honda CRF250 (modified for Dirt Track)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyeman View Post
You started a thread about some fella called Lorenzo and as is the way of things on here it took on a life of its own....

Little did I know...
Holypuck is online now  
June 19th, 2018, 01:42 AM   #595
Senior Member
 
Spygoat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2018
From: New York

Posts: 119
Likes: 85

I Ride: 2016 Honda Blade Repsol SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Sounds great, who is going to argue with that? I particularly like the notion that at one time 'merit' was the sole measure of a person's worth, station, and opportunities in life. Almost sounds like we need to 'make merit great again', emphasis in "again". It sounds nice to say this above merit, unfortunately it has never actually existed.
Good points in your post, but I'd like to speak to this, which was directed at my post, which I believe you do not fully understand.

My most critical experiences in life, when things were most assuredly not easy, never had a tinge of "white privilege" sprinkled in the mix. The men I worked with and depended on and had the good fortune to be with were a mix of races, colors and creeds. We all came up in the same exact system, were all afforded the same opportunities and rose or fell depending on our merit, hard work, determination and application of our given skill set.

I operate from a place of experience when I say "your merit." That's my experience. People are made or broken by their drive and determination. Blaming every bump in the rod on a mass white-man driven conspiracy or the Old Boy network is easy, but in reality, it is a cop out of the highest order.

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

I also can tell you that never once, when one of the men I operated with was in trouble, did the color of my skin, his skin, or the next mans skin EVER come into play when action was taken. Same goes for when it was time for promotion (or demotion).

That's my experience. Maybe it isn't the same as the average Joe and I do not pretend to know your experiences. For me, merit is a huge part of life and a huge part of why you rise or fall.

Last edited by Spygoat; June 19th, 2018 at 02:02 AM.
Spygoat is offline  
June 19th, 2018, 03:08 AM   #596
Senior Member
 
MdubSTYLIE's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Shovel's Club

Posts: 4,880
Likes: 1683

I Ride: your mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spygoat View Post
Good points in your post, but I'd like to speak to this, which was directed at my post, which I believe you do not fully understand.

My most critical experiences in life, when things were most assuredly not easy, never had a tinge of "white privilege" sprinkled in the mix. The men I worked with and depended on and had the good fortune to be with were a mix of races, colors and creeds. We all came up in the same exact system, were all afforded the same opportunities and rose or fell depending on our merit, hard work, determination and application of our given skill set.

I operate from a place of experience when I say "your merit." That's my experience. People are made or broken by their drive and determination. Blaming every bump in the rod on a mass white-man driven conspiracy or the Old Boy network is easy, but in reality, it is a cop out of the highest order.

I respectfully disagree with you, sir.

I also can tell you that never once, when one of the men I operated with was in trouble, did the color of my skin, his skin, or the next mans skin EVER come into play when action was taken. Same goes for when it was time for promotion (or demotion).

That's my experience. Maybe it isn't the same as the average Joe and I do not pretend to know your experiences. For me, merit is a huge part of life and a huge part of why you rise or fall.
Thats an excellent story but it actually has no examples of white privileged situations. May I ask, what color was the management, the owner, the designers? Who was looking on track for a promotion you or one of them? Who moved on to a better life you or them? A normal working class white man will have experiences like you do, which some people will take to mean white privileged isn't real but in reality it was an opportunity for you to learn about it. White privileged isn't about if you would help a co-worker in trouble. Its to the extent you will help them. I have witnessed white privileged everywhere. We just a had a local story about a retirement community an old white couple demanded to not be serviced by the black employees, the retirement home obliged this request. Do you think this is a white privilege situation or something else?
MdubSTYLIE is offline  
June 19th, 2018, 03:17 AM   #597
Senior Member
 
Barbedwirebikerr's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2016
From: FNQ

Posts: 669
Likes: 479

I Ride: DRZ400E
Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
We just a had a local story about a retirement community an old white couple demanded to not be serviced by the black employees, the retirement home obliged this request. Do you think this is a white privilege situation or something else?
Racism.
Jumkie, Gaz, MdubSTYLIE and 5 others like this.
Barbedwirebikerr is online now  
June 19th, 2018, 03:51 AM   #598
Senior Member
 
Spygoat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2018
From: New York

Posts: 119
Likes: 85

I Ride: 2016 Honda Blade Repsol SP
Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Thats an excellent story but it actually has no examples of white privileged situations. May I ask, what color was the management, the owner, the designers? Who was looking on track for a promotion you or one of them? Who moved on to a better life you or them? A normal working class white man will have experiences like you do, which some people will take to mean white privileged isn't real but in reality it was an opportunity for you to learn about it. White privileged isn't about if you would help a co-worker in trouble. Its to the extent you will help them. I have witnessed white privileged everywhere. We just a had a local story about a retirement community an old white couple demanded to not be serviced by the black employees, the retirement home obliged this request. Do you think this is a white privilege situation or something else?
My employer was the government. Bosses, well they varied. Some were black, some white, some Spanish, etc. What Iím trying to stress is that we all started as grunts, fought and worked our asses off in less than ideal conditions and some did better than others, based solely on merit and the work they put in. In my former line of work if you had a bad day or were off your game you got sent home. Usually in a pine box.
Spygoat is offline  
June 19th, 2018, 03:57 AM   #599
Senior Member
 
MdubSTYLIE's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Shovel's Club

Posts: 4,880
Likes: 1683

I Ride: your mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spygoat View Post
My employer was the government. Bosses, well they varied. Some were black, some white, some Spanish, etc. What Iím trying to stress is that we all started as grunts, fought and worked our asses off in less than ideal conditions and some did better than others, based solely on merit and the work they put in. In my former line of work if you had a bad day or were off your game you got sent home. Usually in a pine box.
I respect that. I just disagree with how much this is due to white privilege or the lack of. Its obvious that this experience has helped make you who you are, and you definitely don't come off as racist.
MdubSTYLIE is offline  
June 19th, 2018, 04:00 AM   #600
Senior Member
 
MdubSTYLIE's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Shovel's Club

Posts: 4,880
Likes: 1683

I Ride: your mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbedwirebikerr View Post
Racism.
Okay so lets turn this around. Let say a black couple asked the same retirement home to only let the black staff serve them? Do you think the reaction by the staff would have been the same? Of course not and thats white privileged.
MdubSTYLIE is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
hrc, lorenzo, sign



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If you were Herve, who would you sign? MdubSTYLIE MotoGP 51 September 20th, 2010 02:11 PM
lorenzo sign 1 year deal @yamaha cygnus88 MotoGP 116 September 3rd, 2009 09:20 AM
Who would you sign? Eagle088 MotoGP 86 January 3rd, 2007 06:09 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.