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June 13th, 2018, 09:55 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
This is an interesting comment, how so exactly? What relevant and significant details have moved?
I would consider being called a Trump supporter a gross personal insult myself, as I imagine would you, and I don’t believe Kesh is inclined towards him either. Despite this I am happy to give Trump credit if he actually has negotiated anything real in regard to North Korea.

I don’t come on here to discuss politics, but mine are fairly close to yours from what I have gleaned over the years, and I would certainly be condemned as a liberal/leftist by the Murdoch media in both the USA and Australia should I come to their notice.

If Kesh is to be condemned, particularly by Synn who agreed it should at least be accurate imo, Kesh having pissed off people as he very obviously has doesn’t give Synn a totally free rein, again imo. I have said my piece both in the past and recently, which is basically that I understand and support your position.

Last edited by michaelm; June 13th, 2018 at 10:43 PM.
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June 13th, 2018, 10:06 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
but for me that has a lot to do with my desire to see the rider on a different brand .........
I am very much the same, Gaz. I enjoy the speculation and analysis that comes with a rider changing seats and, whilst horhay's dabble with Ducati didn't pay off, there is a chance that, if he stays with Honda, it may well do, especially if Marc moves on after 2020. I suppose that latter part of the previous sentence is one of my main motivators for my stand point. For as much as I think that Marc is an almost supernatural talent on a bike, I desperately want to see him on another machine as the ultimate challenge to book his place at the GOAT table, (one more test before you leave the temple, Grasshopper(a bit of a retro-tastic reference for all you Kung-fu fans out there)).
Whilst I think that, age for age, Marc is faster than Vale, Vale does have the 2 manufacturer titles and that goes a long way.
I am not looking to start a 93 vs 46 war, I'm just emphasizing the importance of winning titles with 2 factories.

Last edited by McZee; June 13th, 2018 at 10:24 PM.
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June 13th, 2018, 10:25 PM   #463
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I would consider being called a Trump supporter a gross personal insult myself, as I imagine would you, and I don’t believe Kesh is inclined towards him either. Despite this I am happy to give Trump credit if he actually has negotiated anything real in rearguard to North Korea.

I don’t come on here to discuss politics, but mine are fairly close to yours from what I have gleaned over the years, and I would certainly be condemned as a liberal/leftist by the Murdoch media in both the USA and Australia should I come to their notice.

If Kesh is to be condemned, particularly by Synn who agreed it should at least be accurate imo, Kesh having pissed off people as he very obviously has doesn’t give Synn a totally free rein, again imo. I have said my piece both in the past and recently, which is basically that I understand and support your position.
My friend, if I may, I'll chalk it up to your meticulous orderliness for detail then, and not a counter the actual point that was made.

Though I was more interested in the assertion that things had moved in another direction, which of course I would debate.

Anyway, I had edited my post after you replied, so I will add it here:

(Not to mention the curious correction of 'party affiliation' detail, of all the possible entires into this foray, there was a point being made of course, which surely you appreciate; but ok, D or I not R, duly noted...)

Thanks Mike, I guess I found it a rather odd detail that needed your attention; given the quality and magnitude of these "gross personal insults" levied by Kesh vs "Mean Girls Club", that being called a Trump supporter in retaliation was a line crossed. Maybe I missed something, but I think in the ledger of insult categories being registered since page 25, I thought (rightly or wrongly) Synn calling Kesh a Trump supporter needed no interjection. But I do see 'your point as a harsh insult', though in that light then, I can see why it was said. Perhaps it's not a matter of 'party affiliation'?

Last edited by Jumkie; June 13th, 2018 at 10:57 PM.
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June 13th, 2018, 10:56 PM   #464
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I am very much the same, Gaz. I enjoy the speculation and analysis that comes with a rider changing seats and, whilst horhay's dabble with Ducati didn't pay off, there is a chance that, if he stays with Honda, it may well do, especially if Marc moves on after 2020. I suppose that latter part of the previous sentence is one of my main motivators for my stand point. For as much as I think that Marc is an almost supernatural talent on a bike, I desperately want to see him on another machine as the ultimate challenge to book his place at the GOAT table, (one more test before you leave the temple, Grasshopper(a bit of a retro-tastic reference for all you Kung-fu fans out there)).
Whilst I think that, age for age, Marc is faster than Vale, Vale does have the 2 manufacturer titles and that goes a long way.
I am not looking to start a 93 vs 46 war, I'm just emphasizing the importance of winning titles with 2 factories.
I was speaking with some friends today regarding Pedro's eminent retirement, of the four people I spoke with, 2 felt Pedro's promise might develop on an M1, for which they lamented given his possible retirement, the other 2 felt if Pedro jumped to another bike it would unmask him as an 'also ran', revealing his 'true' talent as a mid-packer.

I subscribe to this notion of the machine's parity over perceptions of rider talent. I've made this assertion before, the only "alien" we've seen in GP was Casey Stoner. I reluctantly at times, without alternative evidence, accept Marc Marquez into this exclusive category, though lets be honest, some of his performances are utterly unworldly; but there is a part of me that still recognizes he has, like Pedro, only ever ridden a championship contending machine--an "alien" 'bike'. That is the best way I've read it described here: "alien bikes" make aliens. I don't believe the GP07 was an alien bike, nor any iteration of it, including the GP18. Particularly the GP07-2010.

I will say this though, despite today's survey, I am inclined to think Pedro would do well on an M1, at very least no worse than their current riders. In regards to Marc, he is crash prone, I think this isn't debatable, I can only imagine his performance on a GP07-11 in relation to this very point. I just can't help but imagine Marc crashing as much as Stoner on a bike that was as fickle as teenage romance. I hope Marc doesn't ever leave Honda, I would like to see him eclipse 8+ MotoGP titles, but I'm not sure he has the longevity. Now that he has a multiple MotoGP champion and Ducati race winner, the probability of an unchallenged title run has significantly macerated.
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June 13th, 2018, 10:57 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
My friend, if I may, I'll chalk it up to your meticulous orderliness for detail then, and not the actual point being made.

Though I was more interested in the assertion that things had moved in another direction, which of course I would debate.

Anyway, I had edited my post after you replied, so I will add it here:

(Not to mention the curious correction of 'party affiliation' detail, of all the possible entires into this foray, there was a point being made of course, which surely you appreciate; but ok, D or I not R, duly noted...)

Thanks Mike, I guess I found it a rather odd detail that needed your attention; given the quality and magnitude of these "gross personal insults" levied by Kesh vs "Mean Girls Club", that being called a Trump supporter in retaliation was a line crossed. Maybe I missed something, but I think in the ledger of insult categories being registered since page 25, I thought (rightly or wrongly) Synn calling Kesh a Trump supporter needed no interjection. But I do see 'your point as a harsh insult', though in that light then, I can see why it was said. Perhaps it's not a matter of 'party affiliation'?
Sure, you have known me via the internet anyway for a long time, and have obviously correctly discerned my character over that time. I wasn’t going to get into this, but apropos of all that I am a he who is without sin (or Synn as the case may be) should cast the first stone guy, and don’t feel in a strong position to criticise anyone for being pedantic and liking to have the last word, given I am like that. Hopefully when angered I don’t often go completely off the rails in terms of ripostes however.

Some rational posters like Pyeman ask why Synn as well as Kesh isn’t called out however, and I am not averse to pointing out his inconsistencies, although he is a knowledgeable guy who I am fine about as far as discussing actual bike racing when he chooses to do so, regardless of our different biases.

Last edited by michaelm; June 14th, 2018 at 12:33 AM.
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June 13th, 2018, 11:06 PM   #466
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Some rational posters like Pyeman ask why Synn as well as Kesh isnít called out however, and I am not averse to pointing out his inconsistencies, although he is a knowledgeable guy who I am fine about as far as discussing actual bike racing when he chooses to do so, regardless of our different biases.
I've debated whether to dignify the twice asked question with yet a second answer, as I believe I answered it the first time and even before Pyeman asked it; despite the answer being brushed aside and asked again, not sure if i was supposed to post the same answer again given it was the same question asked twice. Though if you are interested my friend, I would be happy to elaborate, as I think it may be worth repetition.
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June 13th, 2018, 11:32 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
I was speaking with some friends today regarding Pedro's eminent retirement, of the four people I spoke with, 2 felt Pedro's promise might develop on an M1, for which they lamented given his possible retirement, the other 2 felt if Pedro jumped to another bike it would unmask him as an 'also ran', revealing his 'true' talent as a mid-packer.

I subscribe to this notion of the machine's parity over perceptions of rider talent. I've made this assertion before, the only "alien" we've seen in GP was Casey Stoner. I reluctantly at times, without alternative evidence, accept Marc Marquez into this exclusive category, though lets be honest, some of his performances are utterly unworldly; but there is a part of me that still recognizes he has, like Pedro, only ever ridden a championship contending machine--an "alien" 'bike'. That is the best way I've read it described here: "alien bikes" make aliens. I don't believe the GP07 was an alien bike, nor any iteration of it, including the GP18. Particularly the GP07-2010.

I will say this though, despite today's survey, I am inclined to think Pedro would do well on an M1, at very least no worse than their current riders. In regards to Marc, he is crash prone, I think this isn't debatable, I can only imagine his performance on a GP07-11 in relation to this very point. I just can't help but imagine Marc crashing as much as Stoner on a bike that was as fickle as teenage romance. I hope Marc doesn't ever leave Honda, I would like to see him eclipse 8+ MotoGP titles, but I'm not sure he has the longevity. Now that he has a multiple MotoGP champion and Ducati race winner, the probability of an unchallenged title run has significantly macerated.
Now I feel conflicted. You make some very good points, especially in relation to Marc and the GP07. Having said that, up until this year, outside of Marc, the Honda has not been a stellar machine.
Ultimately though, the only way to truly know where Marc stands would be a manufacturer switch. Yes, I too would like to see him get all the titles and, yes, his best chance to do that would be staying where he is. But of the two choices, I would rather see him switch.
The way I have always seen it was that Casey was the stone-cold fastest, but Vale was a possibly better racer but Marc had Casey's speed and Vale's race craft.

As for Dani, I would like to see him on an M1, I reckon he could be top 5.
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June 14th, 2018, 12:48 AM   #468
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I've debated whether to dignify the twice asked question with yet a second answer, as I believe I answered it the first time and even before Pyeman asked it; despite the answer being brushed aside and asked again, not sure if i was supposed to post the same answer again given it was the same question asked twice. Though if you are interested my friend, I would be happy to elaborate, as I think it may be worth repetition.
No need, I completely understood your entirely rational explanation for why you feel no need to reprimand Synn, and particularly not in regard to attacks on Kesh by Synn, the level of insult being quantum levels apart where you yourself are concerned. I agree btw that Synn addressing him as ”Curryfart” while asinine is not racist.

I myself feel that I can take the odd shot at Synn who often makes calls on the accuracy of the posts of others, including mine, and has questioned my comprehension on multiple occasions for that matter, which was the point of my post, and it was Synn agreeing with an inaccurate statement which triggered me.

While far from the case with you obviously particularly in the context of what we are discussing, being called a Trump supporter would be worse than any insult that has ever been leveled at me since I joined the forum in 2007.
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Last edited by michaelm; June 14th, 2018 at 01:18 AM.
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June 14th, 2018, 12:48 AM   #469
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I tend to subscribe that Dani should do ok on the Yamaha as he comes from a high corner speed background with his 250cc history but the real question for me is whether he could 'un-learn' the Honda.

For me, Dani has also struggled year on year over the last 4 - 5 years and has gone from a 'how many races will he win this season' rider, to a 'will he even win one this season' rider which is of concern. It begs whether he is being found out and losing the skills or if the bike is going further from one that allowed him to carry some speed to a more point and shoot style.

I have my gut feel that says that with Marquez leading development the bike has gone outside of the operating zone for Dani but that does not to me mean he has outrun his welcome, just that he needs a new challenge.
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June 14th, 2018, 01:11 AM   #470
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Now I feel conflicted. You make some very good points, especially in relation to Marc and the GP07. Having said that, up until this year, outside of Marc, the Honda has not been a stellar machine.
Ultimately though, the only way to truly know where Marc stands would be a manufacturer switch. Yes, I too would like to see him get all the titles and, yes, his best chance to do that would be staying where he is. But of the two choices, I would rather see him switch.
The way I have always seen it was that Casey was the stone-cold fastest, but Vale was a possibly better racer but Marc had Casey's speed and Vale's race craft.

As for Dani, I would like to see him on an M1, I reckon he could be top 5.
I feel I can join the discussion while acknowledging I am a Stoner tragic since I have not brought him into things on this occasion. I go with the Nakamoto call, which was that MM had the faster reflexes but Casey was a genius on a bike, although that was early in MM’s premier class career. MM has won titles on difficult bikes, but bikes which still may not have been as difficult as a Ducati 800.

MM is a better racer than Casey in terms of relishing battling other riders where Casey was more about beating the bike and the track, but I am not sure I would award him Rossi status as far as racecraft goes, given most of 2015, being outfoxed by Dovi on several occasions, and to a degree his recent DNFs.

I think 2007 or 2011 Stoner when he was absolutely focused against 2014 MM would have really been something to see, but no way did Stoner have the consistent focus and drive/motivation, or ruthlessness for that matter, that MM has shown over nearly his whole premier class career, sans 2015. He most greatly exceeds Stoner in his ability to not only cope with, but apparently thrive in the face of off track manipulation by Rossi and attacks by the Valeban, among whom I number more than a few of the so-called journalists involved with the sport.

Stoner was never going to have anything like a Rossi length career because of his extreme riding style regardless of other factors, and that is also a consideration for MM, as has been said, imo as well.
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Last edited by michaelm; June 14th, 2018 at 01:20 AM.
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