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June 7th, 2018, 08:12 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Luckily that never happens in English speaking countries....


Jokes aside you ain't got to be surprised. The average IQ of valebans who make sarcastic statements about MM and JLo's "alliance" in 2015 is so low I'm surprised they were actually able to make a meme!
As opposed to the Shakespearean intellect of the ones that make Rossi memes...
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June 7th, 2018, 08:24 AM   #132
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As opposed to the Shakespearean intellect of the ones that make Rossi memes...
Well I live in Italy, we don't have em Rossi memes down here...and as the meme we're discussing about is in Italian....
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June 7th, 2018, 08:30 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Well I live in Italy, we don't have em Rossi memes down here...and as the meme we're discussing about is in Italian....
I suppose thatís like shopping for a Protestant bible in Vatican city.
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June 7th, 2018, 08:49 AM   #134
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I suppose thatís like shopping for a Protestant bible in Vatican city.

Absolutely on point!
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June 7th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #135
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The Honda and Aprilia were poles apart as far as two strokes go. The Honda was a reed valve and a relative torque monster compared to the peaky disc valve Aprilia. As far as strokers go they required very different riding techniques.
As far as the M1 goes, yes itís been probably the most user friendly MotoGP bike, but how many others have actually gone head to head with Rossi on one and beaten him to championships? He couldnít have done that bad for Yamaha to be ready to roll out the red carpet and give him a return ticket a la Rossi, although ultimately it seems it wasnít required.
In my opinion Honda are being savvy and taking on Lorenzo in the hope he will improve the Hondaís handling so Marc has an easier time for the future, making him less likely to crash from folding that fickle front end. Although Marc is probably the most phenomenal rider of his era, I think he tends to ride around the bikeís problems rather than identify them for correction. If Lorenzo does improve the bike (if he is the developer heís perceived from the Yamaha and now Ducati, who knows?), Marc could reign at the top of MotoGP for a seriously long time.
I've never downplayed his talent in general. Just his ability to adapt to bikes that require point and shoot style cornering.

As to Lorenzo making the Honda a vastly different bike, I suspect that's wishful thinking along the lines of, Nicky will be great on the Ducati because of his dirt track experience.

You have to consider that there are lots of other riders on various iterations of the RCV and ask yourself, why hasn't their input tamed the bike? Honda, like Ducati of old, have been historically resistant to the idea of rolling back or diluting the various technologies they have developed. I don't see them building the Marquez bike and then something different for all the secondary riders. Honda tends to look for the rider that will make the most of their proprietary designs. The exception of course being the Pedrocycle, and look at how that turned out.
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June 7th, 2018, 11:59 AM   #136
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I know you're on the AD bandwagon since last yr so we'll agree to disagree.



Dovi won an equal number of races as Marquez, the champion last yr. Every MotoGP Season preview this yr said the title race would be between Marquez and Dovi. So no, he still isn't the underdog by the very definition above. That title would go to Zohann Zarco for 2018.

Dovi couldnt pass Lorenzo in Jerez, and (uncharacteristically for him) outbraked himself in a desperate passing attempt, which started the chain reaction to the accident. Dovi had every responsibility to pass cleanly as Lorenzo did to get back to the racing line cleanly. Again we'll disagree on this.

Crashing out of a race 2 corners after taking the lead is crumbling, End of.
This is interesting, so you're going to double down. Ok, let's explore this another way.

Who is the 'underdog'? Check one.
(Poll open to anybody, not just you.)

Rider: UNDERDOG

1. □ Marquez □ Dovi

Manufacturer: UNDERDOG

2. □ Honda. □ Ducati

Let's ask this a different way. Who is the championship favorite, that is the opposite of underdog?

Rider: CHAMP FAVORITE (who is NOT the underdog).

1. □ Marquez □ Dovi

Manufacturer: CHAMP FAVORITE

2. □ Honda. □ Ducati

We could end the discussion here, but let's elaborate.

You want to 'hang your hat' on Marc and Honda as the 'underdogs'? Otherwise Dovi/Ducati are the underdog! Yet you want to argue the guy who has won 4 of the last 5 championships, and the manufacturer that has 4 different individual champions since 2000 are/is the underdog? In that time, Ducati have scored a solitary championship with one of the all time fastest riders, one compared to guess who... Marc Marquez. That's your underdog. Wait, you'll say "point out where I said Marc/Honda are the underdog."



Let's examine the notion of "crumbling" now. Marc Marquez had 27 crashes and won the title, kinda puts your notion of "crumbling" in perspective. I'd agree with you if it were under the circumstance of a title deciding moment, but we're talking about the 5th round of 19. Dovi has had 1 crash at a venue that saw a shitload of crashes, including Zarco in the lead. By your standard, Marc crashed at Mugello, his championship has "crumbled"?

Recap:

1. The 2018 Underdog: Marc Marquez (right?) No, Dovizioso=underdog.

2. Crashing=crumbling, see Marc Marquez.


Most people assert (your words below) that Dovi won as many races last year as Marc because it was a "perfect storm", what is the message in this statement? Oh yeah, it's unsustainable! That is he was lucky to even be challenging Marc, something UNEXPECTED. That is, he is the UNDERDOG to try and duplicate the challenge, 'little chance of winning' against the championship favorite: Marc Marquez!

un∑der∑dog

ˈəndərˌdŰɡ/

noun

noun: underdog; plural noun: underdogs

a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest.




You couldn't say, well, maybe you're choice of description wasn't entirely reflective of the reality, you preferred to double down. Yeah, you're right, let's agree to disagree.





If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Last edited by Jumkie; June 7th, 2018 at 12:12 PM.
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June 7th, 2018, 12:03 PM   #137
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Quote:
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I suppose thatís like shopping for a Protestant bible in Vatican city.
The Koran perhaps?

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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June 7th, 2018, 12:15 PM   #138
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I agree. What he really needs is a tire which suits him though, and HRC may have the clout and sufficient interest in him to push for such a tire.
Dani needed a tire for his micro body/weight and unfortunately that didn't happen ... he crashed in Mugello on a hard tire early because he just can't get heat into the tire quick enough (even on a hot day), part riding style part body weight part tiny body frame. 130 lbs and smallest frame possible to manage weight placement at it's optimal and enough strength to hold the bike up if needed ... Dani has none of that (too small, too light, not strong enough - arm pump, injuries, etc.).

I'm kinda surprised they went with Jorge and not Cal given his performance on the Sat Honda. I think Jorge will adapt faster to the Honda than he did to the Ducati but Cal would pick it up almost immediately ... I can see a podium for Jorge next year, but not sure about a win unless it's gifted.

Either way, all these changes should make 2019 interesting.
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June 7th, 2018, 01:43 PM   #139
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I know you're on the AD bandwagon since last yr so we'll agree to disagree.

Attention Deficit?


The key point is neither Iannone or Petrucci spent 9 seasons on the best handling and smoothest bike in the paddock. Apart from his ill fated yrs on the 'bike' that was the CAME ART, Petrucci has only ridden Ducati's in GP, the same went for Iannone until 2017.


I can't see the relevancy to his inability to adapt to the Duc.
If anything Lorenzo has vastly more experience in racing
and should produce much better results, especially given
he's on an iteration that turns better and has superior
aerodynamics package.


How competitive was Iannone in 2017 on the Suzuki? A transition which everyone said is far easier than going from a Yam to a Duc.

He's a wild rider. Tho he crashed a lot, he got lots more results
on the Duc. Something we've seen little of thus far.



Do you mean his first yr on the Pramac or the Factory?

First year he podiumed in his first race, a 2nd in Italy, and podiumed again in Australia.

Second year podiumed at COTA, Italy, won in Australia and podiumed again in Valencia.

.

Last edited by Keshav; June 7th, 2018 at 02:57 PM.
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June 7th, 2018, 02:37 PM   #140
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The Honda is a point-and-shoot nervous bike that may have less understeer than the Ducati, but is definitely less stable under the brakes. It is designed for entering corners very deep at super-high-speed, wriggling like a snake, and for being picked up super-quickly ad exit said corners superfast.

In other words, it's Marquez' bike. Light years distant from a Lorenzo high corner speed Yamaha. Thinking that Lorenzo will jump on it and challenge Marquez in the space of a few GPs seems rather wishful. It will take him at least one year matching Pedrobot's performance, more likely. By that time his infinite pride will likely be under his heels, with young shark Marc eating him alive each weekend.

Do you really think that a rider who took 20-plus races to beat Dovi on the same bike, will beat Marc Marquez on the same bike any faster?
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