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June 6th, 2018, 08:02 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
When will we see the first meme of Jlo & Marc conspiring, memes 2.0

Has Dim Jarvis commented on the block buster signing? I'd love to see his face when he got the news.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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June 6th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #112
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Damn Italians
Can't even spell in their own language
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June 6th, 2018, 12:09 PM   #113
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Not even Dovi has won a race in such dominant fashion on the Ducati. With Ducati putting all their eggs in the Dovi basket they won't win the championship. He rode well last yr but benefited from a perfect storm and being the underdog. He went into this season as a championship challenger and has CRUMBLED after winning the first race. He couldn't pass his team mate in Jerez, binned it from the lead in Le Mans and had if not been for Marquez' brain farts in Argentina and Mugello he wouldn't even be within a sniff of the points lead.
.
Dovi has not "crumbled" inasmuch as Marquez hasn't crumbled because he crashed. Dovi came into the season STILL the 'underdog', and won the first race under a last corner lunge by Marc (4-0 Dovi on this record). The take away was that the Honda had improved given it was in contention for the win at Qatar, a venue not considered a "Honda track". Dovi came into this season as the championship challenger and has actually performed to expectation--as the 'underdog'. (You do know what 'underdog' means, right?) At Jerez he was poised to challenge Marc if not runners-up podium, but while he was taking the risk to pass Lorenzo (who strapped on soft tires and was bound to lose 'pace') he was taken out by said rider because Jlo rejoined unsafely after leaving the race line. Who crumbled? That's like saying Pedro crumbled because he DNFed at Argentina and Jerez.

Dovi crashing out at Le Mans we can count as an uncharacteristic mistake, not outlandish when you consider the overall event in terms of 'number of crashes' though, that's why substantive analysis is required when oversimplified conclusions are made. At Mugello he immediately understood Lorenzo had won the tire gamble and said as much in the post race interview. We can say the tank modification was partially positive for Lorenzo, but to ignore the tire choice and it's impact on the outcome, particularly with Dovi and Marquez at Mugello, is rather shortsighted. Look at it this way, Dovi didn't choose the optimal tire choice and came runners-up, contrasted with Marc didnít choose the optimal tire choice and crashed. Who crumbled?

Ducati vs Honda, which is the 'underdog'? How does the underdog "crumble"? If anything Marquez has "crumbled" given as you say his brain farts. That Dovi has won Qatar race, was taken out at Jerez where he was poised to challenge the podium, came runner-up at Mugello, is exactly what an underdog does, that is, hangs in there when there is little chance of competing for the title against the perennial juggernauts. I agree it's unlikely Ducati will win championship, given they're the underdog that's normal, but I think putting their eggs into Dovi's basket was the smart choice.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Last edited by Jumkie; June 6th, 2018 at 12:30 PM.
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June 6th, 2018, 01:53 PM   #114
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Respectfully disagree.

Marquez is in another class at the moment sure, and I'm not saying Lorenzo will be a consistent threat from day 1 but as he has shown on the Ducati, he will get it at some point.

Pedrosa is by far the smallest rider in GP (maybe ever?) and he has continually proven people wrong who said he could never be competitive on a 1000cc bike, specifically a Honda. A lot of Honda's problems have been acceleration, meaning they have had to work the front too hard in braking to make up time. There is no way on earth that the RCV chassis is worse than the Desmo. Do you see a thumb brake on the Honda to steer the damn thing around the corner? That's a band aid by Ducati to try and get around the root cause, that they still have a bike that understeers at corner mid point.

Dani has had a bad yr, but he has been relatively competitive nearly all of his seasons and last year when he wasn't it was due to his minute stature not having enough weight to heat up the tyres, a problem Lorenzo won't directly have.

He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to ride, as Sunday showed. Not even Dovi has won a race in such dominant fashion on the Ducati. With Ducati putting all their eggs in the Dovi basket they won't win the championship. He rode well last yr but benefited from a perfect storm and being the underdog. He went into this season as a championship challenger and has crumbled after winning the first race. He couldn't pass his team mate in Jerez, binned it from the lead in Le Mans and had if not been for Marquez' brain farts in Argentina and Mugello he wouldn't even be within a sniff of the points lead. Petrucci is the paddock nice guy, and may pull off a win or two, but he isn't championship material.

I'm not saying Lorenzo will dominate Marquez, but I very much doutbt Marquez will wipe the floor with him for 2 seasons either.
Sure Mate, he'll get on the podium but given how long it took to win a race on the Duc, the evidence points to a guy who hasn't been quick to adapt. It's been more about adapting the bike to the rider than the other way around. There won't be the same amount of attention to him as 2nd rider in the HRC garage. As a benchmark, look at how much more competitive Iannone and Petrucci were their first respective years on the Duc. That should tell you something. What BTW do Stoner, Marquez and Iannone have in common? The will to ride over the edge in a state of continual near-crash without getting flustered. Of course Crazy Joe wasn't as good - but still better on the Ducati than Lorenzo in the first year. For the record, I never said Petrucci was championship material.

Cheers.

Last edited by Keshav; June 6th, 2018 at 02:01 PM.
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June 6th, 2018, 04:29 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Dovi has not "crumbled" inasmuch as Marquez hasn't crumbled because he crashed. Dovi came into the season STILL the 'underdog', and won the first race under a last corner lunge by Marc (4-0 Dovi on this record). The take away was that the Honda had improved given it was in contention for the win at Qatar, a venue not considered a "Honda track". Dovi came into this season as the championship challenger and has actually performed to expectation--as the 'underdog'. (You do know what 'underdog' means, right?) At Jerez he was poised to challenge Marc if not runners-up podium, but while he was taking the risk to pass Lorenzo (who strapped on soft tires and was bound to lose 'pace') he was taken out by said rider because Jlo rejoined unsafely after leaving the race line. Who crumbled? That's like saying Pedro crumbled because he DNFed at Argentina and Jerez.

Dovi crashing out at Le Mans we can count as an uncharacteristic mistake, not outlandish when you consider the overall event in terms of 'number of crashes' though, that's why substantive analysis is required when oversimplified conclusions are made. At Mugellok he immediately understood Lorenzo had won the tire gamble and said as much in the post race interview. We can say the tank modification was partially positive for Lorenzo, but to ignore the tire choice and it's impact on the outcome, particularly with Dovi and Marquez at Mugello, is rather shortsighted. Look at it this way, Dovi didn't choose the optimal tire choice and came runners-up, contrasted with Marc didn’t choose the optimal tire choice and crashed. Who crumbled?

Ducati vs Honda, which is the 'underdog'? How does the underdog "crumble"? If anything Marquez has "crumbled" given as you say his brain farts. That Dovi has won Qatar race, was taken out at Jerez where he was poised to challenge the podium, came runner-up at Mugello, is exactly what an underdog does, that is, hangs in there when there is little chance of competing for the title against the perennial juggernauts. I agree it's unlikely Ducati will win championship, given they're the underdog that's normal, but I think putting their eggs into Dovi's basket was the smart choice.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
It was still an optimistic pass which wasn’t gong to stick sans Pedrosa at Jerez, and I believe the dynamic between him and Lorenzo, justifying the new contract etc had something to do with it. He would imo have been more judicious if it was MM he was trying to pass as he has demonstrated on several occasions in the past.

Dani is the one who was both behind and had full knowledge of where the other 2 riders were, and any rider in the field would have tried to immediately re-pass after Dovi ran wide which Dani should have anticipated, and at least had a chance to anticipate; .
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June 6th, 2018, 04:37 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Dovi has not "crumbled" inasmuch as Marquez hasn't crumbled because he crashed. Dovi came into the season STILL the 'underdog', and won the first race under a last corner lunge by Marc (4-0 Dovi on this record). The take away was that the Honda had improved given it was in contention for the win at Qatar, a venue not considered a "Honda track". Dovi came into this season as the championship challenger and has actually performed to expectation--as the 'underdog'. (You do know what 'underdog' means, right?) At Jerez he was poised to challenge Marc if not runners-up podium, but while he was taking the risk to pass Lorenzo (who strapped on soft tires and was bound to lose 'pace') he was taken out by said rider because Jlo rejoined unsafely after leaving the race line. Who crumbled? That's like saying Pedro crumbled because he DNFed at Argentina and Jerez.

Dovi crashing out at Le Mans we can count as an uncharacteristic mistake, not outlandish when you consider the overall event in terms of 'number of crashes' though, that's why substantive analysis is required when oversimplified conclusions are made. At Mugello he immediately understood Lorenzo had won the tire gamble and said as much in the post race interview. We can say the tank modification was partially positive for Lorenzo, but to ignore the tire choice and it's impact on the outcome, particularly with Dovi and Marquez at Mugello, is rather shortsighted. Look at it this way, Dovi didn't choose the optimal tire choice and came runners-up, contrasted with Marc didnít choose the optimal tire choice and crashed. Who crumbled?

Ducati vs Honda, which is the 'underdog'? How does the underdog "crumble"? If anything Marquez has "crumbled" given as you say his brain farts. That Dovi has won Qatar race, was taken out at Jerez where he was poised to challenge the podium, came runner-up at Mugello, is exactly what an underdog does, that is, hangs in there when there is little chance of competing for the title against the perennial juggernauts. I agree it's unlikely Ducati will win championship, given they're the underdog that's normal, but I think putting their eggs into Dovi's basket was the smart choice.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Great post.
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June 6th, 2018, 04:38 PM   #117
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Sure Mate, he'll get on the podium but given how long it took to win a race on the Duc, the evidence points to a guy who hasn't been quick to adapt.
Cheers.
He was immediately fast in 2008. Pole for the first three races, podium in his first race, won at Estoril almost immediately...
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June 6th, 2018, 04:38 PM   #118
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My prediction, for what it's worth, is that Lorenzo will be much more competitive than most here seem to believe. Much better than a Pedrosa 2.0. Maybe a surprise is in store for the doubters. I look forward to being proved wrong of course, just because it will be great to watch.
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June 6th, 2018, 06:08 PM   #119
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He was immediately fast in 2008. Pole for the first three races, podium in his first race, won at Estoril almost immediately...
We've covered that. The brilliance of the M1 was it's suitability for riders coming from the two-stroke era. Good fortune that. I've said before if he hadn't been there on that bike, he might have ended up a mid-pack rider on a bike that he wouldn't be perfect for him. Lorenzo is still struggling with the point and shoot concept. Mind you, I'm not a Lorenzo hater. This is just my opinion. Time will tell.
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Last edited by Keshav; June 6th, 2018 at 06:13 PM.
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June 6th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #120
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We've covered that. The brilliance of the M1 was it's suitability for riders coming from the two-stroke era. Good fortune that. I've said before if he hadn't been there on that bike, he might have ended up a mid-pack rider on a bike that he wouldn't be perfect for him. Lorenzo is still struggling with the point and shoot concept.


Got to disagree slightly Kesh. In his earlier years Lorenzo was highly adaptable jumping onto several different marques, albeit two strokes.
IMO Lorenzoís slowness to adapt to the Ducati is down to the number of consecutive years heís had on the Yamaha, this was likely a factor with Rossi too. Riding the Yamaha had become as natural as putting one foot in front of the other to Lorenzo and thatís why itís taken more time.
Next year jumping onto the Honda may not be such a big deal now heís getting the Yamaha way out of his system a little, so to speak.
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