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May 28th, 2018, 07:27 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Double red herring.

If that is Valentinoís passion, good luck to him, good on him and let him get on with that full time, rather than as a sideline to his main endeavour which seems to be screwing over established riders he canít beat on the track any more by off -track means.
You keep using that term but it doesn't mean what you think it means.
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May 28th, 2018, 07:42 AM   #82
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Rossi's first racebike was a run down PoS that Graziano bought for a bargain and fixed up for him. He actually wanted to go into Karting, but they had no money for it. He had no big sponsors in 125 when he started in the italian nationals and the joke about the chicken shop sponsoring came from that.


If he is a golden boy, it's because he earned it.

Same as Stoner then but you attack him, Stoner as far as I recall never did anything to receive the hate he gets other than beat the most popular rider in the sport and if you say "well he moaned a lot" show me a rider who has achieved a lot and has never moaned.

"Oh look what Valentino has done for youngsters compared to Stoner"

So fucking what, it's motorbike racing, it's a hobby, Stoner got bored of it and fucked off, Rossi didn't and stuck about fair fucking play to the pair of them is what I say. People take this shit too seriously sometimes.
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May 28th, 2018, 07:47 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
You keep using that term but it doesn't mean what you think it means.
I both like the Princess Bride, and am well aware of the nature of the red herring logical fallacy.

Whether Rossi fosters young riders, and whether he has dealt honourably with his rivals, can be entirely unrelated, and obviously are imo, and are certainly unrelated to the Laguna Seca 2018 race, the ostensible topic of this thread, concerning which we also have differing opinions, mine being both that Rossi almost caused a serious accident the avoidance of which was entirely outside his control, and that rather than being on a bike a second or half a second a lap faster than Rossi’s as was the common wisdom at the time Stoner was actually on a bike on which Rossi would have been lucky to be less than a second slower than Stoner.

Sure Rossi is of course the greater rider overall, I am quite good at arithmetic as it happens as well, but denigrating Stoner’s riding on a Ducati in any context involving Rossi is unlikely to put you on the winning side of a debate.

Last edited by michaelm; May 28th, 2018 at 01:42 PM.
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May 28th, 2018, 07:52 AM   #84
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Double

Last edited by michaelm; May 28th, 2018 at 04:41 PM.
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May 28th, 2018, 10:27 AM   #85
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Rossi Single handedly took Morbidelli, a kid with a broken family and no hope of even competing even on national level and developed his career to the point where he got a MotoGP ride. Ditto Bagnaia. And many more to come.
The.....sun will come out, tomorrow!

Last edited by Little Walter; May 28th, 2018 at 10:59 AM.
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May 28th, 2018, 02:11 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Simple question, you can provide a simple answer.

What has Casey Stoner done for young OZ riders since retirement?
I will answer - nothing.

But he did help many younger riders while racing (US riders come to mind) and fought for the 125cc guys to have paddock rights that they otherwise did not have.

Now as for Aussies that have helped their countrymen I suggest you look on the back of a postage stamp for the answer because the answer is very small.

Gardner - helping family

Doohan - nobody

Magoo - nobody

McCoy - runs a ride school but not tailored at international level

Bayliss - probably the most helpful but again, more localised but has used influence to get a few guys WSBK rides.

Vermuelen - not sure to be honest

Many of these guys do poke their heads in at junior meets from time to time but at the same time, one thing that the vast majority of Aussie sportsmen and sportswomen do is that they do not seek publicity for their assistance so many may well be helping far greater but we just will not know of it

Facts are that in this country we do not have a conveyor belt of racers that we had in the past so the chances to help are greatly reduced plus none of these guys made the money of a Rossi nor have the business connections, thus opportunity to help is greatly restricted anyway.

The Aussies that are 'putting back' if that is the right term are the likes of the Cudlins who run a junior race program (MotoStars) where the likes of Bayliss, Vermuelen, McCoy etc will show their faces from time to time to help the kids (source - know someone very closely involved).



Besides, why should they help (Serious question)?

Once a person retires from work, do they use their money, their skills to help people who replaced them or are they off enjoying retirement?

Last edited by Gaz; May 28th, 2018 at 02:14 PM.
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May 28th, 2018, 03:45 PM   #87
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Everyone is supposed to always try to emulate what is imagined the legendary Rossi would do or else they will be scorned. If they do emulate him and do a better job, they will be scorned also.

Safest thing is to just keep saying how amazeballs he is while backing away slowly.
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May 28th, 2018, 04:11 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
I will answer - nothing.

But he did help many younger riders while racing (US riders come to mind) and fought for the 125cc guys to have paddock rights that they otherwise did not have.

Now as for Aussies that have helped their countrymen I suggest you look on the back of a postage stamp for the answer because the answer is very small.

Gardner - helping family

Doohan - nobody

Magoo - nobody

McCoy - runs a ride school but not tailored at international level

Bayliss - probably the most helpful but again, more localised but has used influence to get a few guys WSBK rides.

Vermuelen - not sure to be honest

Many of these guys do poke their heads in at junior meets from time to time but at the same time, one thing that the vast majority of Aussie sportsmen and sportswomen do is that they do not seek publicity for their assistance so many may well be helping far greater but we just will not know of it

Facts are that in this country we do not have a conveyor belt of racers that we had in the past so the chances to help are greatly reduced plus none of these guys made the money of a Rossi nor have the business connections, thus opportunity to help is greatly restricted anyway.

The Aussies that are 'putting back' if that is the right term are the likes of the Cudlins who run a junior race program (MotoStars) where the likes of Bayliss, Vermuelen, McCoy etc will show their faces from time to time to help the kids (source - know someone very closely involved).



Besides, why should they help (Serious question)?

Once a person retires from work, do they use their money, their skills to help people who replaced them or are they off enjoying retirement?
Exactly I don't remember any racers helping Casey Stoner
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May 28th, 2018, 07:28 PM   #89
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For Aussies the equation is pretty simple if they want to be a star. Get to Europe as early as possible.
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May 28th, 2018, 08:10 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
I will answer - nothing.

But he did help many younger riders while racing (US riders come to mind) and fought for the 125cc guys to have paddock rights that they otherwise did not have.

Now as for Aussies that have helped their countrymen I suggest you look on the back of a postage stamp for the answer because the answer is very small.

Gardner - helping family

Doohan - nobody

Magoo - nobody

McCoy - runs a ride school but not tailored at international level

Bayliss - probably the most helpful but again, more localised but has used influence to get a few guys WSBK rides.

Vermuelen - not sure to be honest

Many of these guys do poke their heads in at junior meets from time to time but at the same time, one thing that the vast majority of Aussie sportsmen and sportswomen do is that they do not seek publicity for their assistance so many may well be helping far greater but we just will not know of it

Facts are that in this country we do not have a conveyor belt of racers that we had in the past so the chances to help are greatly reduced plus none of these guys made the money of a Rossi nor have the business connections, thus opportunity to help is greatly restricted anyway.

The Aussies that are 'putting back' if that is the right term are the likes of the Cudlins who run a junior race program (MotoStars) where the likes of Bayliss, Vermuelen, McCoy etc will show their faces from time to time to help the kids (source - know someone very closely involved).



Besides, why should they help (Serious question)?

Once a person retires from work, do they use their money, their skills to help people who replaced them or are they off enjoying retirement?
The point was raised to counter the ongoing forum narrative that Rossi is a selfish prick when in reality, there are others far, far more selfish than he is.
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