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May 28th, 2018, 03:33 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
Given the how everything has panned out this year and last it would be a brave man who bets against him to not win the next 2 while everyone stays where they are and will be until the end of 2020.
I am that man, I bet you £0.50 that he won't.
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May 28th, 2018, 03:41 AM   #72
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The thing with guys like Rossi and Marquez is they're "Golden Boys" who had big sponsorship and top equipment from a very early age, a luxury a lot of riders never get. I'm not knocking them but when you're riding top notch equipment as a teenager you're going to get more of a chance at racking up more race wins and championships than most of your rivals.
Rossi's first racebike was a run down PoS that Graziano bought for a bargain and fixed up for him. He actually wanted to go into Karting, but they had no money for it. He had no big sponsors in 125 when he started in the italian nationals and the joke about the chicken shop sponsoring came from that.


If he is a golden boy, it's because he earned it.
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May 28th, 2018, 04:12 AM   #73
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The same guy who fucked around for a more than a decade in the world championship to win a paltry 2 championships, which gods outnumbered before they could legally drink in the US?

Whoopty friggin dooooo!!!!
Even one World Championship is of great value and cannot be diminished by couch racers. Stats can be used to "prove" whatever's on your menu. I say Rossi will never have the stature of Freddie Spencer who won a 500GP and 250GP championship in the same season. And that was on two strokes.
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May 28th, 2018, 06:05 AM   #74
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Rossi's first racebike was a run down PoS that Graziano bought for a bargain and fixed up for him. He actually wanted to go into Karting, but they had no money for it. He had no big sponsors in 125 when he started in the italian nationals and the joke about the chicken shop sponsoring came from that.


If he is a golden boy, it's because he earned it.
Following your father into the business is usually not a disadvantage in most sports, but I have absolutely no problem acknowledging Valentino as a teenage prodigy, or that he earnt his pre-eminent status including preferred Michelin status like his predecessors as the top rider, nor that he earnt all his titles. Complaints that other riders had advantages over him were and are extremely hollow however.

My objection is to him still hanging around 10 years past his peak to no particular purpose that I can divine, and while doing so blighting the careers of the current top riders and those who aspire to that status by using his influence for off track manipulations.

Last edited by michaelm; May 28th, 2018 at 06:34 AM.
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May 28th, 2018, 06:19 AM   #75
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while doing so blighting the careers of the current top riders and those who aspire to that status
Rossi Single handedly took Morbidelli, a kid with a broken family and no hope of even competing even on national level and developed his career to the point where he got a MotoGP ride. Ditto Bagnaia. And many more to come.

What has Stoner done since retiring? Teach upcoming OZ racers fly fishing?

Rossi single handedly has done and is doing more for the sport than many past and present racers have ever done. I am sorry if this uncomfortable truth offends some.

Also, Rossi didn't really receive much help from Graziano other than in the very early years of his career. His career in the world scene was pretty much driven all by himself and not his dad. That is a sharp contrast to Marquez, who is living the Tennis parent fantasies of dadmom Julia and uncle Emilio (That's not a knock on MM's talent).
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May 28th, 2018, 06:42 AM   #76
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Rossi Single handedly took Morbidelli, a kid with a broken family and no hope of even competing even on national level and developed his career to the point where he got a MotoGP ride. Ditto Bagnaia. And many more to come.

What has Stoner done since retiring? Teach upcoming OZ racers fly fishing?

Rossi single handedly has done and is doing more for the sport than many past and present racers have ever done. I am sorry if this uncomfortable truth offends some.

Also, Rossi didn't really receive much help from Graziano other than in the very early years of his career. His career in the world scene was pretty much driven all by himself and not his dad. That is a sharp contrast to Marquez, who is living the Tennis parent fantasies of dadmom Julia and uncle Emilio (That's not a knock on MM's talent).

Mate, you got it all a bit wrong. With all due respect.

What you know is the "face" of Rossi's VR46, people picture him as some kind of angel who picks up homeless kids from the street and turns them into Grand Prix racers...it ain't like that. Each VR46 rider has to pay a hefty sum for being a VR46 rider. Something around 300k € per year. It is of course kinda fair, as you pay to get the service of a team that trains you, manages you and puts you in touch with several premium-level sponsors. All you have to do is open the throttle.

VR46 is a company and like all companies thinks about its revenue and does its marketing. Given that their main marketing tool is one of the most famous sportsmen in the world, they are really succesful at it.

Morbidelli got a MotoGP ride because he won a World Title, not because he was "raised" by VR46...
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Last edited by Holypuck; May 28th, 2018 at 06:46 AM.
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May 28th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #77
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Rossi Single handedly took Morbidelli, a kid with a broken family and no hope of even competing even on national level and developed his career to the point where he got a MotoGP ride. Ditto Bagnaia. And many more to come.

What has Stoner done since retiring? Teach upcoming OZ racers fly fishing?

Rossi single handedly has done and is doing more for the sport than many past and present racers have ever done. I am sorry if this uncomfortable truth offends some.

Also, Rossi didn't really receive much help from Graziano other than in the very early years of his career. His career in the world scene was pretty much driven all by himself and not his dad. That is a sharp contrast to Marquez, who is living the Tennis parent fantasies of dadmom Julia and uncle Emilio (That's not a knock on MM's talent).
I didnít say his career was down to his father, just that it helps to have some sort of entree, particularly since you started this whole thread to attack Casey Stoner whose family literally bet the farm, moved 12,000 miles, and lived in Alberto Puigís back yard in a caravan. He remains grateful to Puig as he should be, whatever else the guy had an eye for talent and has done a great deal himself in that regard.

I have no problem with what Rossi has done to help riders starting off, although having Uccio in charge of anything is not something I personally would regard as a good management strategy, but rather with the blighting of the careers of almost any rival he has had in the premier class with which I have a problem as you are well aware, hence your resort to one of your hackneyed stratagems, the red herring logical fallacy.
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May 28th, 2018, 07:05 AM   #78
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Morbidelli got a MotoGP ride because he won a World Title, not because he was "raised" by VR46...
He got the MotoGP seat because he won a Moto2 title. How did he end up in Moto2?

Morbidelli was going to rot in superstock 600s until his now dead father begged Rossi to give this kid a shot. They certainly didn't have the kind of money to pay for his ride.

And yes, of course the Academy riders have to pay a fee. But just because you have 300k in your back pocket doesn't mean you get in. The riders are hand picked based on their potential. And personal endorsements subsidize their cost of entry, sometimes completely.
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May 28th, 2018, 07:08 AM   #79
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I didnít say his career was down to his father, just that it helps to have some sort of entree, particularly since you started this whole thread to attack Casey Stoner whose family literally bet the farm, moved 12,000 miles, and lived in Alberto Puigís back yard in a caravan. He remains grateful to Puig as he should be, whatever else the guy had an eye for talent and has done a great deal himself in that regard.

I have no problem with what Rossi has done to help riders starting off, although having Uccio in charge of anything is not something I personally would regard as a good management strategy, but rather with the blighting of the careers of almost any rival he has had in the premier class with which I have a problem as you are well aware, hence your resort to one of your hackneyed stratagems, the red herring logical fallacy.
Simple question, you can provide a simple answer.

What has Casey Stoner done for young OZ riders since retirement?
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May 28th, 2018, 07:20 AM   #80
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Simple question, you can provide a simple answer.

What has Casey Stoner done for young OZ riders since retirement?
Double red herring.

If that is Valentinoís passion, good luck to him, good on him and let him get on with that full time, rather than as a sideline to his main endeavour which seems to be screwing over established riders he canít beat on the track any more by off -track means.
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