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May 24th, 2018, 11:06 PM   #31
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May 24th, 2018, 11:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
There is rather strong precedent involving a much more egregious error by Rossi; MM did at least take is helmet off.
I do understand your view but in those kind of situations people tend to be emotional and temperamental. I agree we should expect class and sportsmanship at that level of competition and that they should set an example etc, but they are all still human beings. Perhaps not the best analogy but if some dude is pushing his way through, he trips your friend at a bar and your friend falls and breaks his nose are you gonna punch the guy that did it or let him apologize to your buddy if he tries to do so?
Not sure if you follow boxing but situations where members of boxerís entourages do questionable things happen all the time. Like few months ago when Jose Uzcategui punched Andre Dirrell after the bell and knocked him out, then Dirrellís uncle trainer sucker punches Jose couple of times. Some will say thatís outrageous, he should be arrested.... some would say hey thatís what he gets, a dirty punch for a dirty punch. Or when Zab Juda dog punched Floyd and uncle Roger started a brawl.

While I donít necessarily approve of what transpired in the Yamaha garage and I am of the opinion that top tier racers should all respect each other, I do understand people reacting and being protective over their friends. And again if Yamaha had an issue with what Uccio did they should have done something about it. I think Marc took his helmet off since he walked from his garage to Rossiís. After races I see some guys keeping their helmets on for long time especially if they are mad.
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May 24th, 2018, 11:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
It was very definitely reported. Like all these things it depends what you want to believe, but that applies to those on both sides of this long argument. I am not good at links, but the report by an Italian journalist is easily googled, and I believe is under:-
https://imotorbike.my/news/2018/04/m...r-his-behavior

More generally, what we have is a direct statement by Uccio in an interview that it was he who discerned MM's "cheating" at PI 2015, no suspicions from Rossi post race on the day, no answer to Povol's request at the time for a date stamped comment from anyone at all casting any doubt on MM's conduct in that race prior to a certain press conference 5 days later for that matter, and video footage of Uccio dismissing MM from the garage post race at Argentina, fairly clearly saying fuck off even with my rudimentary lip-reading skills, with Rossi well in the background. All of the preceding is completely factual, while your fellow traveler apparently just has absolute knowledge, presumably drawn directly from the ether, that Uccio is just fantasising about the PI 2015 matter and that Uccio had Rossi's approval to tell MM to fuck off. If the latter is true that makes Rossi a complete hypocrite anyway, btw.
I see a sole piece of unverifiable info from a journalist no one has heard of on a malaysian site, citing no sources. That’s not “Widely reported” as you previously claimed.
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May 24th, 2018, 11:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
The parallels with Rossiís Ducati adventure continue. As was the case with Rossi in 2012, I strongly doubt Jorge has suddenly lost his talent and am confident he is still significantly better than top 8 on a suitable bike, including being better than Rossi were he to return to the Yamaha factory team. I also doubt he has Carmelo batting for him to regain such a ride though.

Well he doesnít necessarily need Carmelo. When he was leaving Yamaha he left on good terms and if I remember correctly Jarvis said heís welcome back to Yamaha if he chooses to do so. Unless Uccio vetoes the move somehow .....I personally would like the two of them on the same bike again and see if the rumors of Rossi copying Jorgeís bike setups are true. Even if itís a satellite team with factory spec bike. Iím sure if heíd start winning again and is consistently outperforming Rossi and Vinales heís back to factory team in no time.
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May 24th, 2018, 11:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RG500Gamma View Post
I do understand your view but in those kind of situations people tend to be emotional and temperamental. I agree we should expect class and sportsmanship at that level of competition and that they should set an example etc, but they are all still human beings. Perhaps not the best analogy but if some dude is pushing his way through, he trips your friend at a bar and your friend falls and breaks his nose are you gonna punch the guy that did it or let him apologize to your buddy if he tries to do so?
Not sure if you follow boxing but situations where members of boxerís entourages do questionable things happen all the time. Like few months ago when Jose Uzcategui punched Andre Dirrell after the bell and knocked him out, then Dirrellís uncle trainer sucker punches Jose couple of times. Some will say thatís outrageous, he should be arrested.... some would say hey thatís what he gets, a dirty punch for a dirty punch. Or when Zab Juda dog punched Floyd and uncle Roger started a brawl.

While I donít necessarily approve of what transpired in the Yamaha garage and I am of the opinion that top tier racers should all respect each other, I do understand people reacting and being protective over their friends. And again if Yamaha had an issue with what Uccio did they should have done something about it. I think Marc took his helmet off since he walked from his garage to Rossiís. After races I see some guys keeping their helmets on for long time especially if they are mad.
I was referring to Rossi's incident with Stoner at Jerez 2011, a much more optimistic move than MM's at Argentina 2018. I actually think after such incidents it is a no win situation for the offending rider, they will be criticised both if they apologise and if they don't apologise, but it is harsh imo for a Rossi fan to take issue with MM for the timing of his apology given the precedent set by Rossi himself in almost identical circumstances, except that he didn't even make the corner without any involvement of Stoner, whereas MM was on an entirely feasible line at an entirely feasible speed.
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May 25th, 2018, 12:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
I see a sole piece of unverifiable info from a journalist no one has heard of on a malaysian site, citing no sources. That’s not “Widely reported” as you previously claimed.
See Barry's link to the same report on what I believe is an Italian site, possibly where the other site obtained it, not that I see any reason why a report from Malaysia, a country with its own GP (EDIT and premier class competitor), should be inherently unreliable. Perhaps 'well' which is what I actually said rather than 'widely' was an exaggeration, but as I said anticipating your reply it is what you choose to believe, and you guys are happy to accept David Emmett's not infrequently speculative reports when it suits you.

Last edited by michaelm; May 25th, 2018 at 12:06 AM.
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May 25th, 2018, 12:44 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
I see a sole piece of unverifiable info from a journalist no one has heard of on a malaysian site, citing no sources. That’s not “Widely reported” as you previously claimed.
If you change to a bigger font .... it gets a whole lot more widely reported.
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May 25th, 2018, 12:48 AM   #38
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Posted this elsewhere ... its pertinent here.

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Originally Posted by BarryMachine View Post
Surely Lorenzo cant stay under those conditions .... and surely Ducati cant use Lorenzo .... he clearly does not gel with their bike. That whole senario in totally untenable.

Just hire Petrucci and be done with it.

Mind you I cant say he'll improve as it'll just be badge change.

Miller would have been a bike upgrade. Which he appears to have anyway now so we will see Pramac Duc. Step it up .... but theoretically not Factory Duc.

What a wacko situation.

To be honest if Lorenzo doesnt go Suzuki or even HRC ..... its a waste of possibly the only guy who could go near Marquez.
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May 25th, 2018, 12:52 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by RG500Gamma View Post
Well he doesnít necessarily need Carmelo. When he was leaving Yamaha he left on good terms and if I remember correctly Jarvis said heís welcome back to Yamaha if he chooses to do so. Unless Uccio vetoes the move somehow .....I personally would like the two of them on the same bike again and see if the rumors of Rossi copying Jorgeís bike setups are true. Even if itís a satellite team with factory spec bike. Iím sure if heíd start winning again and is consistently outperforming Rossi and Vinales heís back to factory team in no time.
You do not lose your talent overnight, nor via an excursion to Ducati - as Rossi had showed.

Sure, he may well go back with the tail between the legs but Yamaha could do far worse than welcome him back as afterall, they will have bikes that do not yet have a home.

My opinion only ............. a manufacturer would be absolutely stupid mot to sound out Jorge as we have to remember that Yamaha seem to have gone downhill since he left whilst Ducati went uphill ....... sure, it may be coincidence but then it may be influence
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May 25th, 2018, 12:54 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I was referring to Rossi's incident with Stoner at Jerez 2011, a much more optimistic move than MM's at Argentina 2018. I actually think after such incidents it is a no win situation for the offending rider, they will be criticised both if they apologise and if they don't apologise, but it is harsh imo for a Rossi fan to take issue with MM for the timing of his apology given the precedent set by Rossi himself in almost identical circumstances, except that he didn't even make the corner without any involvement of Stoner, whereas MM was on an entirely feasible line at an entirely feasible speed.
Ok I understand what you meant now. And I agree with you to some degree on some folks being too harsh on criticizing Marcís apology timing but I think at least based on what Iíve read that most of Rossiís fans were rather questioning the sincerity of the apology and if he genuinely wanted to apologize or was he just doing it because Puig told him so and to avoid another lash out from Rossiís fans. Either way itís all moot as I donít think those two will ever be on good terms again after 2015.
To address the feasibility of the pass, Marc admitted being at fault, race direction ruled he was at fault and I understand if some of his fans think the move was feasible but these are the facts. I donít think Marc would say he was at fault just to calm everyone down.

Anyways, we shouldnít clog this thread about Marc and Rossi this is supposed to be about Jorge.
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