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May 22nd, 2018, 03:59 AM   #21
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Usually, we can see how good a rider is at adapting when you see them move classes.
e.g. Brad Binder. Absolutely phenomenal in Moto3 (He won a race from dead last), but taking his time to get used to Moto2. Bagnaia took a season to become really good in Moto2 as well. Ditto Jorge Navarro, Romano Fenati etc.

Mir took to Moto2 like a fish to water. I am fairly confident he will outperform Mini Marquez as the season moves on. That guy has talent.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:04 AM   #22
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Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.
I agree, I haven’t been following moto 2 very closely, the last time it was really interesting for me was when MM was riding in that class, but neither Mir not anyone else is pushing MM closely in the near future or even the medium term future imo. The only guy who could go close to matching him for pace was Jorge on a Yamaha developed around him on Bridgestone tires which particularly suited him, circumstances not likely to be repeated any time soon if ever; I guess Vinales made a fair fist of doing so for a few races on Michelin tires which particularly suited him, but those tires aren’t coming back either.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:05 AM   #23
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He's underachieved big time in my opinion,he's been on that bike for 13 seasons now and never delivered a title, that's not good enough on a top bike in arguably the top team in gp racing, especially when you consider Marquez comes in and wins it straight away on the same bike and then adds 3 more titles so far.
I don't want to hijack the thread as this is a topic of it's own, but I don't think you could get a better number 2 rider within the strictures of how history has unfolded. If Dani was Honda's top boy then, yes, you're 100% right, but riding shotgun for Marc, he's been great and, as Holypuck pointed out, he's the only person to win a race in the top class every year for however long he's been in it.
Yes I agree that Dani maybe didn't fulfill the promise that followed him into the big class, but given his injuries and the advent of Stoner and Marquez as team mates, I think he's done a good job. Also, up until this year, the 1000cc Honda hasn't been the best bike nor was it in the 800s, but I concede that it was for most of the 990 era.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:17 AM   #24
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Dovi pushed him all last season so there are riders out there who will, trouble is not only is Marquez an incredible talent but the Honda is probably the best bike right now. If Yamaha manage to get on terms there's a couple of riders there who can compete with him.
He did push Marc. But I say it was because Ducati had the electronics figure out compared to the rest. Honda and suzuki being slightly lost while yamaha is completely lost by not using magnelli like the rest. That alone made the ducati look more competitive, like they turned a corner when in actuality the other manufacturers went backwards. The honda and yamaha are still the superior bikes but yamaha is really fucking lost.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I agree, I havenít been following moto 2 very closely, the last time it was really interesting for me was when MM was riding in that class, but neither Mir not anyone else is pushing MM closely in the near future or even the medium term future imo. The only guy who could go close to matching him for pace was Jorge on a Yamaha developed around him on Bridgestone tires which particularly suited him, circumstances not likely to be repeated any time soon if ever; I guess Vinales made a fair fist of doing so for a few races on Michelin tires which particularly suited him, but those tires arenít coming back either.
Right it takes the perfect storm to compete with MM. Even then the rider is relying on Marc making a few costly mistake to "compete" with him.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by pyeman View Post
He's underachieved big time in my opinion,he's been on that bike for 13 seasons now and never delivered a title, that's not good enough on a top bike in arguably the top team in gp racing, especially when you consider Marquez comes in and wins it straight away on the same bike and then adds 3 more titles so far.

I'm not really saying Pedrosa is a phenom, I'm only saying he is a really, really good rider who IMHO gets flak too often. He is penalized by his body (1.58m...I was taller than that when I was 11 y/o and I ain't a big dude) and by the many injuries he sustained. I also reckon he was quite unlucky. Yes, he never delivered a premier class title but I still think he's had one heck of a career.

Marquez is probably the most talented rider to ever turn his leg over a motorcycle, at least in Grand Prix racing, so I wouldn't compare the two too much.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:51 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.
There is. You mentioned his balls above.
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May 22nd, 2018, 04:52 AM   #28
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There is. You mentioned his balls above.
Well played BWB.
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May 22nd, 2018, 05:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.
If HRC can keep the bike as sorted out as it currently is in coming seasons I would have to agree. Historically though they go through a pretty regular cycle of having a great bike for a period of time and then spoiling it with new and improved gimmickry.
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May 22nd, 2018, 05:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
He did push Marc. But I say it was because Ducati had the electronics figure out compared to the rest. Honda and suzuki being slightly lost while yamaha is completely lost by not using magnelli like the rest. That alone made the ducati look more competitive, like they turned a corner when in actuality the other manufacturers went backwards. The honda and yamaha are still the superior bikes but yamaha is really fucking lost.
HRC knew about the spec electronic ruling far in advance of it being applied. They had all of 2016 and 2017 to learn how to use it. I don't seriously think Ducati's understanding of it changed that drastically over the course of the last season. There were changes made to the Duc that simply worked well for Dovi who's confidence just grew and grew. It's just too easy to discount the idea that Dovi just became a better rider. Too reminiscent of the whole Ducati rides itself line of thought aimed then at Stoner
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