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May 19th, 2018, 05:34 PM   #101
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The words that usually accompany Jack by people in the know are potential, natural talent, which these days seem to be measured by a computer.

Ramon Aurin
We have the data from Dani, from Marc, and we know where Jack loses time compared to them," Aurin explains.

"Some riders will lose out to the top riders in braking, acceleration, corner speed … everywhere, basically. The top riders are just a little bit better in everything. But with Jack, it's easier to see. His acceleration is good, and his braking points, it's like Marc, as good as Marc, and Marc is a three-times MotoGP champion.

"It's all corner speed for Jack at the moment, and he's missing maybe a little bit of confidence in the front tyre to carry the corner speed that the data says he maybe can. But this is experience, and that is why I think he has another step to make. It's one he can do. It's not like he's reached the limit of his potential; he's nowhere close to this."

Gabbarini said pretty much the same thing, throwing in risk as a positive attribute to go fast on the Ducati, ending by saying if Jack can put these together quickly he should go fast on the Ducati. Seems to me he's put it together quicker than anyone thought.

On the down side i think Jack struggles with setup, however he is still young and eager to learn. In his first year in VDS his FP improvement was fairly slow. This year in FP's he seems to improve relative to the rest on the field so hopefully he's able to give more useful feedback now. If he can just find those last 5 laps from the tyres...

I'd like to see the contracts go
Jack - Ducati
JLo - Suzuki
Ianonne - HRC
Pedro - Aprillia
Petrucci - KTM
Rabat - Pramac

As for Rins, I don't think it's a coincidence that Suzuki's fortunes have waxed and waned with presence/absence. The feedback he gives the team is probably highly valued. If JLo moves there they could move forward with real confidence.

Just saw birdman's post. I'll leave it up anyway.
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Last edited by Goonwriter; May 19th, 2018 at 05:38 PM.
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May 19th, 2018, 05:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by birdman View Post
Millers Ďluckyí pole. Now thatís a good one from the armchair as it gets. Letís review: Miller, Crashslow and Marquez fit slicks in dicey conditions. Cal gives up, Marquez, the man who sets the standard, pulls in as well. The lesser talented second tier Miller stays out there, initially 5 seconds or more off the pace, slowly builds heat into tires somehow without crashing, then has the talent to put in an astounding lap. Itís as rare as hens teeth seeing Marquez out ridden and peeps say yawn, move along nothing to see here?
.
That pole lap reminded me of the Kiyonari BSB pole lap, a lap spoken of in somewhat awe to those that had seen it for the sheer skill and balls under the circumstances.

I do not think Jack will ever win the World Title (if he does Birdy, I will shout you a case) but that is no slight on Jack either as I do believe that he has what it takes to be in MotoGP for many years.

I look at him this way.

Some say he is undeserving but he won a race before Crutchlow, Ianonne and Vinales which means he has more race wins than many who had been in MotoGp for far longer.

He has more pole positions than many who have been in the sport for a while.

For mine, I put Miller on the factory squad although could see a 1 year offer for Petrucci with Miller then getting the 2019 in Pramac with the 2020 contracts based on where results on equal gear.

Pramac is non-factory in name only as afterall, when Miller got pole the factory squad went bananas which you do not see with other manufacturers ........ they are a 4 bike team
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May 19th, 2018, 05:45 PM   #103
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Give him a carbon swingarm and watch the results







Of how carbon splinters and what forces are needed to snap it






But I have to admit to having a perverse like of Crutchlow ............. infuriating, loud mouthed, publicity seeking ........... but for mine he is always worth the watch
I'm just glad to see Crashy back...i don't know who's been wearing his leathers and helmet and pretending to be him for a while but it's good to see normal service resumed.
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May 19th, 2018, 06:22 PM   #104
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Millers Ďluckyí pole. Now thatís a good one from the armchair as it gets. Letís review: Miller, Crashslow and Marquez fit slicks in dicey conditions. Cal gives up, Marquez, the man who sets the standard, pulls in as well. The lesser talented second tier Miller stays out there, initially 5 seconds or more off the pace, slowly builds heat into tires somehow without crashing, then has the talent to put in an astounding lap. Itís as rare as hens teeth seeing Marquez out ridden and peeps say yawn, move along nothing to see here?
He took a gamble that paid off, it was luck, nothing more. More impressive was he didn't crash and injure himself. Ultimately pole position meant fuck all since he couldn't convert it even with that grid advantage into a win or podium.

Let me know when he pulls the same thing off that MM did at the Sachsenring with the slicks switch in wet conditions in the middle of a grand prix and I'll have a different assessment of him. Let's face it, at Argentina, taking away the bullshit penalties he could not match MM's pace period.

MM is the measuring stick and Miller ain't in the same league.

This is literally the same stuff the Brits go on about with Cuntslow and any other British rider who comes into GP. Blinded by nationality.
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May 19th, 2018, 06:32 PM   #105
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MM is the measuring stick and Miller ain't in the same league.

This is literally the same stuff the Brits go on about with Cuntslow and any other British rider who comes into GP. Blinded by nationality.
So what you are saying is that nobody aside from Marquez should be there ............. as afterall, he is the measuring stick and not one person matches up.

Sure Dovi got close but hey, fell short.

There are those blinded by nationality, there are those blinded by hatred and there are some blinded by the different.

Using your guide, Casey Stoner would have been thrown out after one year and yet you admit to being a fan .............. sometimes things take time and opportunity before we can fully judge or appreciate
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May 19th, 2018, 06:43 PM   #106
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He took a gamble that paid off, it was luck, nothing more. More impressive was he didn't crash and injure himself. Ultimately pole position meant fuck all since he couldn't convert it even with that grid advantage into a win or podium.

Let me know when he pulls the same thing off that MM did at the Sachsenring with the slicks switch in wet conditions in the middle of a grand prix and I'll have a different assessment of him. Let's face it, at Argentina, taking away the bullshit penalties he could not match MM's pace period.

MM is the measuring stick and Miller ain't in the same league.

This is literally the same stuff the Brits go on about with Cuntslow and any other British rider who comes into GP. Blinded by nationality.
Most of the Aussies on here have acknowledged nationalism where Jack is concerned, and obviously he is no MM, no-one is, but if the criterion for signing a rider is someone who can beat MM there will be a lot of unoccupied bikes on the grid.

I think MM could have won the race Jack won if he was not riding for the championship, but he didn't because he didn't want to risk crashing, and Jack managing to stay on the bike and win with bikes/equipment equalised by the conditions is traditionally a sign of a rider who in dry races may be hampered by his equipment, and in particular that his crashes in the dry may have been related to over-riding non-competitive equipment a la Stoner at LCR. Stoner did have the dry pole and the close second in the dry on a satellite bike of course, but he was known as Crashy Stoner before he fortuitously got the Ducati factory ride, and no-one had much in the way of expectations of him before the first race in 2007.

I think it is harsh to judge him for not converting a wet pole into a dry win, 1st on the grid is not much of an advantage in motogp, and he wasn't allowed to take advantage of his second slice of luck/display of good judgement as the case may be with the other riders being allowed to redress their errors in judgement and make the correct tire choice as he had.
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May 19th, 2018, 06:59 PM   #107
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So what you are saying is that nobody aside from Marquez should be there ............. as afterall, he is the measuring stick and not one person matches up.

Sure Dovi got close but hey, fell short.

There are those blinded by nationality, there are those blinded by hatred and there are some blinded by the different.

Using your guide, Casey Stoner would have been thrown out after one year and yet you admit to being a fan .............. sometimes things take time and opportunity before we can fully judge or appreciate
Yes Dovi should have been chucked out of motogp, he couldn't beat Stoner when he was riding for HRC, and his only race win prior to recently on the factory Ducati was in the wet.
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May 19th, 2018, 07:19 PM   #108
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Yes Dovi should have been chucked out of motogp, he couldn't beat Stoner when he was riding for HRC, and his only race win prior to recently on the factory Ducati was in the wet.


Funny you say Dovi Mike as there is no better example (recent years) of time being the important factor.

To be fair, Dovi has never looked a title challenger for a title until 2017 (and again, big kudos to MDubs and Barry for their early tip) and really was little spoken of as such. He was always seen as 'that next level down' but things aligned, time allowed him to build continuity with a team, with the bike and gain confidence that he had a longer term future ........ the result was Marquez crapping himself a little as the challenge was very real and very close.

But without the trust in other teams, the belief of managers and doors opening, Dovi would have been cast to the same scrap heap as others are today.

Funny world
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May 19th, 2018, 08:28 PM   #109
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Most likely Petrucci moves up and his pulling aside for Rossi helps because it means he might understand map 8. Out of interest those condemning Petrucci wouldnít be employing a double standard on Lorenzo? Personally I think JLo did the right thing, because it was real. Much as I like Dovi, canít pass youíre teammate then simply not world champ.
Well brother, I gotta disagree and point out an important distinction, thing is Petrucci and Rossi were not teammates, they were not even riding for the same manufacturer. Pulling over in the way he did was a big fuck you to the principles of proper rival competition, no doubt he signed that ridiculous petition for riders to pull over for Rossi with his actions. Thank Dog for Ant West! An Aussie of principle. No bullshit, I've sent that bloke a donation to his racing effort. That's not a double standard my friend when we're talking 'team orders' by your employer running the same 'team' vs some rogue activist yahoo pulling over for a guy who (on principle) should have been suspended from the race.

Second, Dovi could have likely passed Lorenzo, but it would have required a high risk, perhaps even contact, if they go down ala Iannone, we'd all be crucifying Dovi. And as a point of fact, Dovi did get by Lorenzo. The way it happened tells me something about the way Lorenzo was riding to keep Dovi behind. Lorenzo used his skill to block Dovi at Valencia with a pace that was unsustainable, he had done it at Malaysia and almost went down because he was on the limit to keep Dovi behind too, and he did it again at Jerez this year with stupid soft tires that were dropping off a cliff. Lorenzo has acted like a cock, he ignored spectacularly his employer's demands; moreover, we can't even say he has redeemed himself with performance because he's been shite. I'm glad it appears Ducati haven't taken this laying down.

And I'll add for good measure Compa, Ducati should have written in some performance clauses to the compensation package. Shitty negotiation on their part given Lorenzo was desperate to leave Yamaha, Ducati had some leverage, they overpaid. Argentina was embarrassing. If you saw Ducati team principal talking about the second seat, he made it clear, Lorenzo is on the chop block. They probably could have tolerated Lorenzo's shit performance but the way he thumbed his nose in a crucial moment contesting a championship is, I hope, going to have consequence. You should be happy Birdy, Lorenzo's shit behavior looks to be tabling a 50/50 chance that your boy Jacky gets a full factory seat. I say good, fuck Lorenzo, he can eat a dick.



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Last edited by Jumkie; May 19th, 2018 at 08:47 PM.
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May 19th, 2018, 09:12 PM   #110
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Well brother, I gotta disagree and point out an important distinction, thing is Petrucci and Rossi were not teammates, they were not even riding for the same manufacturer. Pulling over in the way he did was a big fuck you to the principles of proper rival competition, no doubt he signed that ridiculous petition for riders to pull over for Rossi with his actions. Thank Dog for Ant West! An Aussie of principle. No bullshit, I've sent that bloke a donation to his racing effort. That's not a double standard my friend when we're talking 'team orders' by your employer running the same 'team' vs some rogue activist yahoo pulling over for a guy who (on principle) should have been suspended from the race.

Second, Dovi could have likely passed Lorenzo, but it would have required a high risk, perhaps even contact, if they go down ala Iannone, we'd all be crucifying Dovi. And as a point of fact, Dovi did get by Lorenzo. The way it happened tells me something about the way Lorenzo was riding to keep Dovi behind. Lorenzo used his skill to block Dovi at Valencia with a pace that was unsustainable, he had done it at Malaysia and almost went down because he was on the limit to keep Dovi behind too, and he did it again at Jerez this year with stupid soft tires that were dropping off a cliff. Lorenzo has acted like a cock, he ignored spectacularly his employer's demands; moreover, we can't even say he has redeemed himself with performance because he's been shite. I'm glad it appears Ducati haven't taken this laying down.

And I'll add for good measure Compa, Ducati should have written in some performance clauses to the compensation package. Shitty negotiation on their part given Lorenzo was desperate to leave Yamaha, Ducati had some leverage, they overpaid. Argentina was embarrassing. If you saw Ducati team principal talking about the second seat, he made it clear, Lorenzo is on the chop block. They probably could have tolerated Lorenzo's shit performance but the way he thumbed his nose in a crucial moment contesting a championship is, I hope, going to have consequence. You should be happy Birdy, Lorenzo's shit behavior looks to be tabling a 50/50 chance that your boy Jacky gets a full factory seat. I say good, fuck Lorenzo, he can eat a dick.



If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
I thought he should have let Dovi by in the circumstance, and even though Jorge was the guy I had been going for since Stoner’s retirement I stopped watching the race, before either rider went down actually, because there was no good result for me, even Lorenzo winning the race would have brought me no pleasure. Your attitude is likely and rightly affected by the Pedrosa/Hayden incident, in which Dani not only didn’t cede position to his championship leading team-mate but torpedoed him out of the race.

I think Birdman’s alternative position ie no ceding position to anyone ever is defensible though, particularly if your attitude was formed by following Mick Doohan as mine was and his may have been. No one ceded position to Mick in the last 2 races of 1992 when 4 extra points would have won him the title, and as I recall he didn’t expect or ask anyone to do so.

Last edited by michaelm; May 19th, 2018 at 09:46 PM.
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