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May 14th, 2018, 05:50 AM   #51
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Kudos to all #46 achieved on a motorcycle. I ain't denying it has been/is impressive.

But I will never, ever understand how he got so liked and popular...
He won a lot, brought his personality out, had elaborate celebrations, went to Yamaha from a peak Honda and won a championship straightaway that even the strongest supporters were a bit doubtful would happen.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:03 AM   #52
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I'm not a fan but then neither am I a demonizer who negates every good accomplishment. Rossi's popularity has many factors. When he was young he won a shit-ton of races. 2. When he was young chicks really loved him because he had that baby-faced little kid appeal, which went a long way to attracting a lot of straight guys who had homo-erotic fantasies about him. 3 He had great appeal to the guys with Peter Pan syndrome because Rossi loved to clown for the camera and never seemed to grow up. 3 He was Dorna's golden boy and they spent truckloads of money to promote him, and did so very effectively in an era where cult-of-personality types were extremely receptive to Dorna's promotion. Although there's nothing new about that. Back in the day, the guys who promoted Sinatra would hire young girls and literally rehearse them for hours until they could emulate complete hysteria on command and then bussed them around to Sinatra concerts where they all had first row seats. Nowadays, those front row seats are filled with so-called journalists who fulfill the same function.

I understand all this and it is exactly why I'm not a fan. I never liked showmen. The ideal kind of sportsman/rider I've always looked up to would be a guy like Ricky Carmichael or Ryan Dungey.

Humble, never flashy, going out there to get the job done.

I loved Casey because even with the obvious limits of his personality he was always real, or raw if you'd like.

I love Dovi because he talks and looks like an underdog even when he is winning.

In a world where everyone thinks they're entitled to consider themsleves better than anyone else, being simple is a huge quality.
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Last edited by Holypuck; May 15th, 2018 at 11:32 AM.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:06 AM   #53
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I have, however, always considered Stoner's ride in Phillip Island 2009 the Greatest ride of all time from the greatest rider of all time.

The one in which he rode the white Ducati.

That was insanely astonishing.
I too think that was probably the most spectacular race Stoner rode, and against a close to peak Rossi in a championship year and also a year when the factory Yamahas had been completely dominant, with Rossi riding a very good race as well and pushing him most of the way. It was the second race back for him after his three race absence with illness which had been widely interpreted as him having been mentally broken by Rossi. The 2009 bike wasn’t too bad in his hands though, he has always said the bike was fine and that his health was the issue that year, so I consider the dominant win on the truly diabolical 2010 bike to be more impressive as an achievement.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:19 AM   #54
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I too think that was probably the most spectacular race Stoner rode, and against a close to peak Rossi in a championship year and also a year when the factory Yamahas had been completely dominant, with Rossi riding a very good race as well and pushing him most of the way. It was the second race back for him after his three race absence with illness which had been widely interpreted as him having been mentally broken by Rossi. The 2009 bike wasn’t too bad in his hands though, he has always said the bike was fine and that his health was the issue that year, so I consider the dominant win on the truly diabolical 2010 bike to be more impressive as an achievement.

Oh man, the 2010 Duc was a wild bull to tame. That thing couldn't stop shaking, not even on the straight. The 3 wins in 2010 were IMHO the real proof of Stoner's insane talent, even more than his 2007 title.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:25 AM   #55
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It certainly was, mate. Last meeting of the season, the winner decided the championship.
if my memory serves me, Colin would have won the title with a second place but went for and got the win anyway.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:26 AM   #56
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I'm not a fan but then neither am I a demonizer who negates every good accomplishment. Rossi's popularity has many factors. When he was young he won a shit-ton of races. 2. When he was young chicks really loved him because he had that baby-faced little kid appeal, which went a long way to attracting a lot of straight guys who had homo-erotic fantasies about him. 3 He had great appeal to the guys with Peter Pan syndrome because Rossi loved to clown for the camera and never seemed to grow up. 3 He was Dorna's golden boy and they spent truckloads of money to promote him, and did so very effectively in an era where cult-of-personality types were extremely receptive to Dorna's promotion. Although there's nothing new about that. Back in the day, the guys who promoted Sinatra would hire young girls and literally rehearse them for hours until they could emulate complete hysteria on command and then bussed them around to Sinatra concerts where they all had first row seats. Nowadays, those front row seats are filled with so-called journalists who fulfill the same function.
You know my aversion to psychology, so I don’t really go for the homo-erotic angle, but otherwise I mostly agree, and you can’t really blame Rossi for most of it over much of his career; as Gaz argues, he would be stupid to have not taken whatever advantages were available to him, which his predecessors as the top rider weren’t particularly inclined to reject on principle either.

My distaste until recent years was really for an extreme element among his fandom rather than him, but he seems to have come to believe his own publicity and his chief booster Uccio in particular, what was amusing in a 17 year old is less so in a bloke who is rising 40, and his off track manipulation becoming so overt has prompted me to retrospectively allocate blame to him for the persecution of his former rivals as well as for the persecution of the current ones.

I still don’t seek to discredit his spectacular success over so many years, great riding was involved in all of those titles.
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May 14th, 2018, 06:31 AM   #57
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I had no idea there could have been such a strong cult of Rossi's personality outside of Italy.
He lived in Fulham then as did I, the local bike shop had a giant signed copy of him on its front wall. Rossi was also polite and interested in anyone talking bikes then.
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May 14th, 2018, 02:12 PM   #58
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You know my aversion to psychology, so I donít really go for the homo-erotic angle, but otherwise I mostly agree, and you canít really blame Rossi for most of it over much of his career; as Gaz argues, he would be stupid to have not taken whatever advantages were available to him, which his predecessors as the top rider werenít particularly inclined to reject on principle either.

My distaste until recent years was really for an extreme element among his fandom rather than him, but he seems to have come to believe his own publicity and his chief booster Uccio in particular, what was amusing in a 17 year old is less so in a bloke who is rising 40, and his off track manipulation becoming so overt has prompted me to retrospectively allocate blame to him for the persecution of his former rivals as well as for the persecution of the current ones.

I still donít seek to discredit his spectacular success over so many years, great riding was involved in all of those titles.

Are you a Scientologist Mike?
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May 14th, 2018, 03:00 PM   #59
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Are you a Scientologist Mike?
L Ron who had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic was actually opposed to psychiatry, and Scientology has sought to discredit psychiatry at all opportunities.

I have no problem with psychiatry, a scientific medical discipline. It is really cod psychology with which I have the problem.
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Last edited by michaelm; May 14th, 2018 at 03:07 PM.
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May 14th, 2018, 04:40 PM   #60
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L Ron who had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic was actually opposed to psychiatry, and Scientology has sought to discredit psychiatry at all opportunities.

I have no problem with psychiatry, a scientific medical discipline. It is really cod psychology with which I have the problem.
Scientology is opposed to both. Reason I ask is because you wrote that and I know they had gained a foothold in Oz.
Iíve read a from him as a youth and about him as an adult. The psychology behind cultists and serial criminals is fascinating to me. He was a brillant warped mind. I donít believe he was ever diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic though I could be wrong. I do know he fits all the criteria for antisocial personality disorder. Very much identical personality traits as Trump.
Anyway itsís a race thread so I wonít divert the topic any longer. Your statement just peaked my interest.

I agree with your dislike of cod. Despite growing up in a New England fishing town, seafood never appealed to me
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