Originally Posted by synn

Some of the most fun I have had on two wheels was on an Aprilia RS125.
It’s so much fun to push a little stroker to the limit than a big multi cylinder 4 stroke at 60-70% of what it can do.

Originally Posted by birdman

Ah the Aprilia RS. It is with great regret that by this time I was a converted 4 stroke poser and never got the chance to sample what is most likely the ultimate of either 125 or 250 road going two strokes.

A funny tale is when I bought my son a well used KX65. After my 4 dump mx bike I’d forgotten what a powerband felt like and on the ‘test ride’ of the KX I almost flipped it. Needless to say all to witness where lmao. I got off it with a grin from ear to ear and announced, I’ll buy it! Still my fav bike it the shed. Amazing how the little thing can haul my fat ass around.

Originally Posted by #22

Indeed Birdman. 2 Strokes were shit canned mainly for emissions reasons, but had their development been allowed to continue the 500cc 2 strokes would be quicker than a 990 4.

They are lighter, less moving parts and frictional losses and when ported correctly, can produce insane amounts of power for their displacement. There are of course negatives, such as being extremely peaky and not as fuel efficient, but then a lot of that could have been addressed with the electronic control the 4's now have.

We still use 2 strokes in shifter karts, because no 4 stroke have come close yet to performance.

Originally Posted by birdman

I actually find it interesting given a certain restriction what an engineer is capable of designing to offer an advantage over his/her fellow engineer. TBH motorsport to me has always been as much about the engineering competition as it is the pilot. Hence constructors championship, once far more prestigious a title. Yes yes I know, in this day and age a very unpopular opinion. Who cares about the geeks?

What is very interesting is that Honda as a company absolutely loath the humble two stroke. Its too simple, too devastating, to cheap. It has been their mission for many a year to attempt to prove a 4 stroke is superior. This whole wing crap is simply a diversion from the simple truth. The 500cc two stroke always was and will be the superior weapon. Oh, what about the 990 V5 you say? Better than a 500? Absolute bullshit. Honda was yet again on a mission to prove something. Namely, that if double the capacity, and you invest 3 times as much, you can get something in the ballpark of a two stroke race machine.

Yamaha and Suzuki were left scratching their collective heads when Honda rolled out the RCV V5 4 stroke. This machine had at a minimum double the investment of Yamaha, whom rolled out a souped up roadbike by comparison. Make no mistake, if Barros' NSR two stroke had of received even half the funding of the four stroke V5, what we would all remember now rather than the Rossi epic rides of 2002 would be Barros winning every single race of the year by a country mile.

Now Im not even including how Honda screwed amateur dirt bike riders out of millions by laying waste to the 250cc MX class. Every rider, pro and amateur alike, will attest to a 250cc two stroke as the ultimate MX/SX race weapon. I was luccky to be geriatric enough to own a CR250. By coincidence I think it was either 1987 or 1989? Without peer. Again, to beat them, Honda was forced to double the capacity, double the investment. They had to do this since their previous attempts to build an equivalent capacity 4 stroke to beat a 2 stroke were laughable.

Which brings me back to my teenage years. Where we once blatted around pimply faced and absolutely obliterated the 4 stroke poser brigade on much looked down on dirty RGV250 two strokes. Absolute killer of a motorcycle. And in my time, learner legal!! And just to rub it in, my all time fav bike I've ever owned? NSR250. I cant post a digital photo for the younger peeps, it predates the modern iphone age. But yes it did exist, and a more precise weapon to this day does not exist imo. 110kg. End of. My four strokes, even my 170kg 1000cc Kwaka, effin great bike but a shopping trolley by comparison.

Wings? Meh. Still dont believe me. Cutting edge tech looks like this.

Attachment 12701

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NSR500

The 1989 500cc weight limit was 115kg. 115 kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eddie fucking Lawson. Steady? Hahahahahahahahaha. Makes me laugh to this day. Insane talent, only man alive that made riding these things look easy. 2018 motogp 165kg, wtf. Not cutting edge tech Honda, not even close. Wings? Meh, I don't care. I'm too old? Hahaha hell no I was blessed to be born when two stroke dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Originally Posted by birdman

A funny tale is when I bought my son a well used KX65. After my 4 dump mx bike I’d forgotten what a powerband felt like and on the ‘test ride’ of the KX I almost flipped it. Needless to say all to witness where lmao. I got off it with a grin from ear to ear and announced, I’ll buy it! Still my fav bike it the shed. Amazing how the little thing can haul my fat ass around.

Originally Posted by BarryMachine

The little kx though has what Id call a shocker of a centre of gravity to power ratio ..... scary silly to ride

Originally Posted by Barbedwirebikerr

Cause they're built for kids Barry.

Though a big wheel 80, now you're talking. Plenty of paddock grand prixs have been run and won on those beasts.
We had this little loop around a mulberry bush, through a drain and over a tabletop. I was quicker on the big wheel than on a yzf426