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May 15th, 2018, 04:32 AM   #71
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I'm interested to see how Yamaha work at this compared to how Honda did in 16&17. Honda and their riders just kept chipping away, Marquez was doing a huge amount of laps in every test and never seemed to bother about a time attack. By mid season Honda had made up a lot of ground on their rivals and during the fly aways it was easy to see how much their bike had improved over the season.

I think Yamaha can't do something similar they're going to be in a hole for a few years. It took Honda 2-3 years to really get it together once they'd made some mistakes, which I think is a result of much more limited testing and no custom tyres. Yamaha don't have a Marquez or Stoner who can ride around problems and I'm not sold on Vinales being the guy that can push through the shit parts of the season and work his ass off to make the bike better after ever test and weekend. I don't think Rossi is that guy either, forgetting his age last time he had real trouble with a bike he gave up and forced changes with little direction or results which does seem to be, from an outsiders perspective, what is happening right now.

Edit to add: the major part of the responsibility is on Yamaha not its riders, but their riders still need to take some of the responsibility for what is/has happened.
For sure, the rules the manufactures now find themselves under make fixing any issues like this far harder (essentially the limited testing they can do).

Does make the seasons more interesting though
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May 15th, 2018, 04:39 AM   #72
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I'm not sold on Vinales being the guy that can push through the shit parts of the season and work his ass off to make the bike better after ever test and weekend.
Yep, there does seem to be a certain mental fragility to Mav'. When things are going good, he's up, but when they're bad, he seems really really down.
For all the problems Marc has had, he seems to have remained up beat at least.
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May 15th, 2018, 04:58 AM   #73
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For sure, the rules the manufactures now find themselves under make fixing any issues like this far harder (essentially the limited testing they can do).

Does make the seasons more interesting though
It is fairly likely mainly down to Yamaha, my diagnosis being chronic Furusawa deficiency, but these last 9 seasons have not exactly embellished Valentino's reputation as a genius developer.
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May 15th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #74
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They need Furusawa.
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May 15th, 2018, 07:45 AM   #75
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It is fairly likely mainly down to Yamaha, my diagnosis being chronic Furusawa deficiency, but these last 9 seasons have not exactly embellished Valentino's reputation as a genius developer.
I think the other issue besides the bike issues is you have two riders who are not adaptable to adverse bike issues. We saw it when Rossi rode the Ducati for the first time in 2010 and he knew he was fucked. When the bike is truly setup to their liking, they shine, when it's not they don't know what to do. Vinales turned into a basketcase last year when things went south after the tire change and the M1 had the tire wear issues. Rossi to his credit managed to get the M1 up into higher finishing positions, but Vinales looked like Marco Melandri after riding the GP8.
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May 15th, 2018, 08:42 AM   #76
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Not adaptable?
You do know that you’re talking about a guy who went from a short and stubby V5 to a long and low in-line 4 and won back to back championships right?

The Ducati is a bike that few excel in and most are meh on. And even then, he finished as the top Ducati on the two years he spent on it.
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May 15th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #77
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Not adaptable?
You do know that you’re talking about a guy who went from a short and stubby V5 to a long and low in-line 4 and won back to back championships right?

The Ducati is a bike that few excel in and most are meh on. And even then, he finished as the top Ducati on the two years he spent on it.
You extol the virtues of him switching bikes as adaptable, but conveniently ignore he couldn't ride the Ducati and can't adapt to the current bike. He's adaptable to a degree, but it's a small one. Marquez and Stoner were and are far better at adapting to adverse situations with their machines.
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May 15th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #78
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On paper, Marquez might. But we will never know until he switches manufacturers.
Stoner, yes.

Everyone who has ridden the Honda and the Yamaha (Rossi, Crashy, Dovi etc.) have said on separate occasions that the two bikes are the antithesis of each other.

The Ducati that Rossi and Crashy left behind was so terrible, Gigi shitcanned the bike and almost everyone who worked on it.
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May 15th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #79
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Cuntslow quit on Ducati. He also chucked the bike down the road when he had a guaranteed podium at Phillip Island in 2014.
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May 15th, 2018, 10:05 AM   #80
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Also Marquez won back to back titles on a screamer engine with shit electronics and a big bang engine. The kid can adapt to anything.
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