MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree402Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
May 3rd, 2018, 06:35 AM   #71
Senior Member
 
Holypuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Northern Italy

Posts: 465
Likes: 391

I Ride: Honda CRF250 (modified for Dirt Track)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntG View Post
Actually it's more that we like to see real racers who live in the real world racing for the love of a pure sport rather than watching a bunch of spoilt rich Spanish and Italian kids riding million pound motorbikes around glorified go-kart tracks.

Spoilt rich kids don't end up in GPs. They aren't tough enough. I know a couple of kids who made it to moto3, won't name names, but I can assure you...their parents were broke after sacrifying all their resources to give their kids a chance. The environment of the Grand Prix Racing world himself might have a lot people looking spoilt, but very rarely those people HAIL from a spoilt environment.

Rossi himself, despite having a father who was a former GP rider, grew up in a family that was anything but wealthy in his pre-turning-pro years.

In some areas of Italy, such as Romagna, riding a motorcycle is like running, playing football, or having a bicycle for kids. Meaning EVERYONE does it. And it's the same in Spain: it's not really a sport for those who have enough money to try it out, is just something that people have in their culture and therefore in their blood. The "it's expensive" always comes afterwards.

Having a huge amount of people who try out the sport is why Spain and Italy produce more riders than any other country.

If you think TT is tougher because people die, here's a list of all the riders who have died in the history of Grand Prix Racing:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incide...l_Motomondiale
danski and McZee like this.

Last edited by Holypuck; May 3rd, 2018 at 06:41 AM.
Holypuck is offline  
 
May 3rd, 2018, 06:39 AM   #72
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
From: UK

Posts: 377
Likes: 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Just because the truth is hard for you to accept doesn't make it less true. The TT isn't just a spectacle of speed, WSBK and BSB bikes are just as fast (if not faster) but compete in a safer environment. GP bikes are FASTER, but compete in a safer environment. The appeal of the TT is men risking their life on one of if not the most dangerous circuit in the world. There are deaths every year and people from all over the world purchase tickets to go see it. It's not much different then Romans going to the Colosseum to see gladiators die.

Do racers really have to accept such a high level of risks to be considered "real" racers? I have respect for TT racers and I like watching Michael Dunlop race, but I don't consider him more of a real racer than GP, WSBK, or BSB racers.
I agree with you about the speed aspect, in sheer numerical terms when comparing closed circuit racing to the roads, what I am talking about is the sense of speed that comes from the bikes going through the towns and villages at full lick.
I also don't think less of any GP, or SBK racers, not at all.
All I am saying is that most people watch the TT for the speed, just because there are fatalities there does not mean that that is the motivation for the spectators- although I concede that it may be for some.
The thing to bare in mind is that the racers choose to do this, so the analogy of the gladiators is off the mark a bit. I have never seen a fatality at the TT and I never want to. The GP fatalities I have only ever seen live and will never watch any footage of them again and, being candid, I had my fair share of unpleasantness in the army, so I can assure you that, for me at least, it is just for the speed.
There is slow mo footage of the bikes going through 'Conker Trees' (I'm not making it up), you should watch that. It's incredible to see the compression of the suspension and goes some way to showing as to why the TT is so popular.
By the way, before anyone asks, yes I do have kids and no I don't know how I would feel if they wanted to become road racers.
McZee is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 06:48 AM   #73
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2015
From: Southport England

Posts: 1,319
Likes: 636

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Spoilt rich kids don't end up in GPs. They aren't tough enough. I know a couple of kids who made it to moto3, won't name names, but I can assure you...their parents were broke after sacrifying all their resources to give their kids a chance. The environment of the Grand Prix Racing world himself might have a lot people looking spoilt, but very rarely those people HAIL from a spoilt environment.

Rossi himself, despite having a father who was a former GP rider, grew up in a family that was anything but wealthy in his pre-turning-pro years.

In some areas of Italy, such as Romagna, riding a motorcycle is like running, playing football, or having a bicycle for kids. Meaning EVERYONE does it. And it's the same in Spain: it's not really a sport for those who have enough money to try it out, is just something that people have in their culture and therefore in their blood. The "it's expensive" always comes afterwards.

Having a huge amount of people who try out the sport is why Spain and Italy produce more riders than any other country.

If you think TT is tougher because people die, here's a list of all the riders who have died in the history of Grand Prix Racing:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incide...l_Motomondiale
I don't think it's tougher because people die, I find it more refreshing because the riders are more down to Earth and proper salt of the Earth types.
AntG is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 06:55 AM   #74
Senior Member
 
Holypuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Northern Italy

Posts: 465
Likes: 391

I Ride: Honda CRF250 (modified for Dirt Track)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntG View Post
I don't think it's tougher because people die, I find it more refreshing because the riders are more down to Earth and proper salt of the Earth types.


Mate there are a lot of kids racing moto2 and moto3 that couldn't be more down to earth. And even MotoGP. I was lucky enough to chat with Dovizioso and Pol Espargaro for example, and they were both more down to earth than some of my friends who ride amateur dirt track with me

All I'm saying is that the way the two things (TT and Grand Prix racing) are marketed and presented makes one look more genuine and one look more spoiled. IMHO, that ain't true.

Peace
AntG likes this.

Last edited by Holypuck; May 3rd, 2018 at 06:58 AM.
Holypuck is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 07:02 AM   #75
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2015
From: Southport England

Posts: 1,319
Likes: 636

I don't think these documentaries in recent years have helped the cause for road racing, Road in particular was extremely morbid and pretty much just portrayed death right from the start. I'd like to know how that project ended up like that to be honest because originally it was meant to be a documentary following Michael and William through the Irish road racing season rather than an actual documentary about the family, apparently a lot of footage filmed during the year 2012 never made it into the final film, some of which is available on the DVD as an extra.

Closer to the Edge was more upbeat and had funny moments while still briefly dealing with the tragic side of the sport and showing how normal these fellas really are, Road I felt just portrayed them as maniacs and showing Roberts crash was just wrong in my opinion, according to Michaels book they never even told the family they were going to show that when they viewed it at a private screening.
AntG is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 07:03 AM   #76
Senior Member
 
Barbedwirebikerr's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2016
From: FNQ

Posts: 696
Likes: 504

I Ride: DRZ400E
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Do racers really have to accept such a high level of risks to be considered "real" racers? I have respect for TT racers and I like watching Michael Dunlop race, but I don't consider him more of a real racer than GP, WSBK, or BSB racers.
They couldn't care less if you, I, or others consider them real racers. Do you know why? Because they are racers. All that matters is speed. Times. Beating that upstart fuck who rocked up with his $$$$$ trailer and stickered bike. That's what they do. Go hard, analyse everything. Go harder, faster.
AntG, Theo, Holypuck and 1 others like this.
Barbedwirebikerr is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 07:13 AM   #77
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2007
From: sydney australia

Posts: 10,528
Likes: 2081

Quote:
Originally Posted by McZee View Post
I agree with you about the speed aspect, in sheer numerical terms when comparing closed circuit racing to the roads, what I am talking about is the sense of speed that comes from the bikes going through the towns and villages at full lick.
I also don't think less of any GP, or SBK racers, not at all.
All I am saying is that most people watch the TT for the speed, just because there are fatalities there does not mean that that is the motivation for the spectators- although I concede that it may be for some.
The thing to bare in mind is that the racers choose to do this, so the analogy of the gladiators is off the mark a bit. I have never seen a fatality at the TT and I never want to. The GP fatalities I have only ever seen live and will never watch any footage of them again and, being candid, I had my fair share of unpleasantness in the army, so I can assure you that, for me at least, it is just for the speed.
There is slow mo footage of the bikes going through 'Conker Trees' (I'm not making it up), you should watch that. It's incredible to see the compression of the suspension and goes some way to showing as to why the TT is so popular.
By the way, before anyone asks, yes I do have kids and no I don't know how I would feel if they wanted to become road racers.
I have attended live motor racing since my early teens, and always abhorred the spectators who attended to see the crashes. I actually don't follow the TT because I do find it just too dangerous, and I wouldn't watch people climbing Everest if that was a spectator sport either.

I go both ways on this though, no one forces people to compete in TT racing or climb Everest as has been said, life is a risk in general from which all danger can't be removed, and staying home in bed has its own risks. I personally agree that a significant percentage of competitors ending up with traumatic encephalopathy is probably worse than the fatality rate in TT racing, or ending up quadriplegic from a rugby scrum.

People have also perhaps somewhat forgotten just how dangerous the more mainstream sport of FI car racing once was.
danski and Holypuck like this.
michaelm is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 10:21 AM   #78
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2015
From: Fremantle, Australia

Posts: 1,543
Likes: 584

In the press conference when asked if there is anything he is scared of Iannone grinned and answer 'Marc' while laughing and then high fives Marquez.
Keshav, #22 and Theo like this.
p4p1 is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 11:43 AM   #79
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furiosa View Post
Fucks sake guys. It's tiresome...

Enjoy your sniping and bringing everything down to the same old shit. Have fun pissing each other off. I'm going to just watch the racing, the warm ups, the practices, every snippet I can find. I'm going to read stuff, no doubt on the internet, but I won't be reading pages and pages of bickering.
Great, thanks, I’m sure there won’t be any more bickering or inflammatory things said…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furiosa View Post
I was going to reply to this, clicked like by mistake, clicked unlike, typed a response, deleted it. I despair at fuckwits like you, I really do. What a fucking low, inflammatory thing to say. ,

I thought it was great that the others that just want to piss other people off and have childish arguments had gone off elsewhere to do it.
The forum is truly a fascinating human social experiment. Furiosa, here me out, I’m responding to you because if this part you said: “What a fucking low, inflammatory thing to say.” and “I thought it was great that…’childish arguments’ had gone off elsewhere…” I assume you are talking about the flame war Kesh has been conducting against me lately, ironically over me telling Kesh to stop flame warring with Synn and Albert Tetlock (who left over ‘bickering’ as you lament above). You have described the bickering as “childish” as if there isn’t a right and wrong side, just two people “feuding”, right? Except…what is this here? Oh, I’m sure we can all rationalize why this is “different” and why its ok in this instance to use inflammatory language, the logic seems to boil down to: if ‘I’ say it, its not inflammatory, if I bicker, its not bickering, its okay, etc. and so forth. There is actually a name for this ‘double standard’ but I won’t use the H word because its just too inflammatory, but I bet you’re now thinking of it and its raised your blood pressure. But here me out if you may.

Here is another thing I find fascinating, you skipped/ignored completely one inflammatory post to target another one. Sorry Pyeman, but I have to point out your post here (I’m not attacking either Furiosa or you, but I am making a point about the interesting dynamic of this forum).

Furiosa, you stepped over this post here, after you clicked the “like” button no less:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyeman View Post
As i've said here before i don't want to see any rider get injured, but a nice little low speed front tuck on the grass again would be good...
Furiosa, You don’t think this might be “inflammatory” to a Rossi fan? I don’t like Rossi much myself, but you don’t think expressing a desire for a crash might be fodder Vudu, Danski, Synn, or other Rossi fans? But you “liked’ this post, then as you stepped over it you went right after Vudu’s predictable reaction and added something rather inflammatory to him ”I despair at fuckwits like you[Vudu]”, I really do. What a fucking low, inflammatory thing to say.

Fascinating, especially when you add in Theo’s indignation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo View Post
What a load of bollox, people know it happens, but we don't go to see them die.
Keep in mind, Theo expressed a desire that Rossi had died instead of Simonchelli. (A post that wasn’t chastised with the same harsh language that Furiosa, Pyeman, or any other people chiming in over the this bickering here). But let me point out something else that is fascinating, this kind of dynamic then gives license for others to chime in with “inflammatory” language…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Another mind reader.

The rest are ludicrous straw man bullshit from someone who has twisted...

Hamburger anyone?

Furiosa, keep in mind, Kesh actually mocked me when I pointed out Theo wishing death on Rossi. Interestingly, the level of hostile reaction to Vudu’s protest over anyone wishing ‘his’ favorite rider crash out hasn’t reached the level of hostile reaction against what Kesh has been doing, or what Theo said. Why? (It’s a rhetorical question).

Furiosa , do you feel I’m attacking you or Pyeman? I’ll know soon enough from your reaction to my post. Here is why I’m taking the time to detail my response to you (and Pyeman below). You reacted hostilely to Vudu over his theory that people watch the TT as a blood sport, that is, your reaction expressed anger at him making a theory about something you hold dear. Vudu is a “fuckwit” according to you. Not much different than what Kesh has been doing with me, is it. Albeit, relentlessly and disconnected from any logic or self-control. But you haven’t taken the time to see there is an identifiable ‘right and wrong’ to our conflict, but rather its just “childish bickering” to you, both sides equally. You have done the forum a disservice by characterizing it this way, as it gives license to the perpetrator for the bickering to go on. It seemed great when Kesh was chasing Synn around, after all he is about as popular as Vudu. When I called out Kesh for klogging the threads, there wasn’t a senior member to call him to stop “bickering” and klogging up threads despite him being the senior member. Now this thread has been derailed, and I’d like to point out, before my post here, so you can’t actually blame me. ‘We get the forum we deserve.’


Quote:
Originally Posted by pyeman View Post
What a fucking twat you are,i went every year because … not seeing people die,you are a complete cunt and a disgrace to this forum and this is the last time i will reply to the utter shit you speak
Pyeman, I don’t think it was unpredictable that a Rossi fan would react to you in this way, given that you wished VR ‘harmlessly crash’ (harmless or not, its inflammatory and you should have expected a reaction. There is you and I are sitting as friends talking shit at the bar saying fuck Rossi, but when you post it here, well its fair game.) Its not really a debate about the TT, rather it’s a reaction by a Rossi fan who adversely reacted to you expressing his guy crash out. I shouldn’t have to feel sorry to point this out actually, but I’ll say sorry Pyeman to point this out, I’m not attacking you, but rather the predictable reaction was, well predictable, as it should be; imagine say Vudu posting he hopes ‘Marc crashes out’. I could see it now, the entire forum might ‘crash’ from the hostile replies to Vudu (sorry about the pun, I’ll get my coat).

We get the forum we deserve. We may likely be pointing out the boos on this very thread if Marc is on the podium (or cheers if he crashes out at Jerez, or anywhere else for that matter). Its not enough to say “stop the bickering”, equating it to a “feud” with no right or wrong, take the time to see if there really is a right and wrong. Much like Oxley trying to distance himself from the adverse reactions to Marc on the podium, as he if wasn’t partly responsible for creating this dynamic. Spade a spade. Kesh has relentlessly been klogging up the thread, even trolling his own non-trolling thread. The only guy to call him out up until that moment (before I did in the Qatar thread) was Albert Tatlock. He is now gone, perhaps realizing this forum is burned, or as Furiosa says “sucked all the fun out”. Kesh of course was encouraged by a few members, particularly Barry Machine. Then three more members chimed in asking Kesh to stop klogging threads, Danski, Barbwireriderr, and me, immediately Kesh reacted negatively. Granted, Kesh then conducted two flame wars simultaneously. I don’t see a reason to stop point this out, as when I read a reference to Kesh attacking others being characterized in ‘general’ terms as “bickering” and “feud” I feel compelled to point out the disservice this has on the forum at best, the double standard at worst.
synn likes this.

Last edited by Jumkie; May 3rd, 2018 at 01:15 PM.
Jumkie is offline  
May 3rd, 2018, 12:12 PM   #80
Senior Member
 
Keshav's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
From: Nu Yawk City

Posts: 9,415
Likes: 1363

I Ride: DRZ400sm and KTM SXF450sm
Type type type
Keshav is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
2017, bull, espana, gran, premio, red



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Round 4: Gran Premio Red Bull de España 2017 JPSLotus MotoGP 288 May 19th, 2017 06:52 AM
Motogp: 2016 Round 4 Gran Premio Red Bull de España Motokitty MotoGP 509 April 30th, 2016 02:53 PM
Gran Premio bwin de España Practice and Qualifying povol MotoGP 38 May 13th, 2014 09:39 PM
Gran Premio Red Bull de la República Argentina povol MotoGP 71 April 30th, 2014 05:33 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.