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April 24th, 2018, 04:14 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I didn't say anything about you. You're certainly one of the more knowledgable guys around here, whose opinion I find thought-provoking and generally fair.

My post had two contentions: Pedrosa was out of the race with a broken collarbone, and the Espargaro did, in fact, refute rumours that Rossi confronted him at Valencia.

He responded by saying it's a truckload of bullshit. He didn't distinguish. I naturally had to teach him.
I was on my phone at work and actually thought I was replying to Synn, who in a recent post accused me of over - generalising. I am always happy to debate you courteously.

My view is pretty much that expressed by Michael Scott in the article Jumkie posted. You may well be correct about the whole week-end, although the start sounds like a fairly characteristic Dorna influenced SNAFU rather than anything outright reckless on MM's behalf, but really the whole week-end has been about the Rossi incident and Rossi's post-race reaction, which like Scott I consider to be manipulative and hypocritical.

It doesn't justify anything of course, but the best way to make MM ride over the edge would seem to be to challenge him by giving him a penalty he resents which puts him at the back of the field. Again history repeats cf Rossi and the grid spot sweeping penalty, not that Rossi rode recklessly in the race concerned.
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Last edited by michaelm; April 25th, 2018 at 08:35 AM.
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April 24th, 2018, 04:33 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by JohnnyKnockdown View Post
If one were to only watch the races, and not read or listen to any forum, news outlet or social media, would they come to the conclusion that the sport is being manipulated or skued towards Rossi’s favor?
The answer is no, which is why all this kvetching about Rossi is bullshit because what matters is what happens for 50 minutes every other Sunday
There are occurrences on track, such as MM getting what was effectively a black flag for the Argentina incident and Rossi getting no in race penalty for Jerez 2011 or Sepang 2015.

I take your point in regard to this forum alone, relevant for you of course because this is the one you choose to post on.

Otherwise the sport doesn't exist in a vacuum, the off track stuff is still markedly Rossi -centric, which is rather the problem, and has far reaching effects on the whole careers of other riders, particularly the other riders who are by most measures actually the best. Getting vilified for being good at my job is not something with which I myself would cope with much equanimity I fear.

Given the vast amount of anti-MM stuff out there, which it couldn't be more clear was instigated and orchestrated by Rossi on this occasion, I like to think this forum provides a little balance; I haven't seen much else in that vein prior to the Michael Scott article.
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April 24th, 2018, 08:24 PM   #253
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... not that Rossi rode recklessly in the race concerned.
Some might say dowling on the race line significantly and grossly slower than is reasonable knowing a faster rider is approaching is reckless. It would certainly be reasonably to do what lap riders do all the time, be aware of one's surroundings, and in the interest of safety, move out of the way.

The thing is if the roles were reversed we could surely count on the slower rider being chastised for being flagrantly dangerously slow around Rossi. I'm sure if Marc had been close to 4 seconds slower than potential, and Rossi took the inside to pass and an incident ensued, I could already hear journalists and fans smugly lambasting Marc for getting in Rossi's way. This would be so predictable. As Michael Scott correctly points out, Rossi comes out smelling like roses even when he's the villain.

As I said in another post in reference to Espargaro making a point about available flags, a blue flag waved at dangerously slow Rossi at Argentina would have been appropriate. And I'll add, the arbitrary penalty RD issued for his contact with Espargaro, something normally not punished, was compounded by issuing a drop position penalty instead of 'safer' option of imposing a....oh how did David Emmett put it? Oh yeah, "time correction". But then again, it's not like RD have a stellar record on issuing penalties that are corresponding to the current situation on the track.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Last edited by Jumkie; April 24th, 2018 at 08:27 PM.
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April 24th, 2018, 09:36 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Some might say dowling on the race line significantly and grossly slower than is reasonable knowing a faster rider is approaching is reckless. It would certainly be reasonably to do what lap riders do all the time, be aware of one's surroundings, and in the interest of safety, move out of the way.

The thing is if the roles were reversed we could surely count on the slower rider being chastised for being flagrantly dangerously slow around Rossi. I'm sure if Marc had been close to 4 seconds slower than potential, and Rossi took the inside to pass and an incident ensued, I could already hear journalists and fans smugly lambasting Marc for getting in Rossi's way. This would be so predictable. As Michael Scott correctly points out, Rossi comes out smelling like roses even when he's the villain.

As I said in another post in reference to Espargaro making a point about available flags, a blue flag waved at dangerously slow Rossi at Argentina would have been appropriate. And I'll add, the arbitrary penalty RD issued for his contact with Espargaro, something normally not punished, was compounded by issuing a drop position penalty instead of 'safer' option of imposing a....oh how did David Emmett put it? Oh yeah, "time correction". But then again, it's not like RD have a stellar record on issuing penalties that are corresponding to the current situation on the track.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Sure, I didn't explain myself well. I meant the race back in his heyday when he got the grid penalty and scythed through the field, not the recent one. I don't recall him doing anything too reckless, although a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then and we have gone through him being acclaimed for doing what MM does now, and other riders being damned for complaining with more justification than he has for his current complaining. I actually had a look again at the famous Max Biaggi elbow incident in regard to which I tended to go with the prevailing narrative at the time, and with the aid of the retrospectoscope Max didn't really have anywhere to go. Even with no animus against Rossi at all at the time watching Jerez 2005 live I did think he just plain rode into Sete though.
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April 25th, 2018, 04:17 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
As I said in another post in reference to Espargaro making a point about available flags, a blue flag waved at dangerously slow Rossi at Argentina would have been appropriate
Just a point of order - A blue flag during a race is only used to warn a rider that he is about to be lapped or if they are leaving pit lane when traffic is approaching.

It's not used to warn a 'slower' rider they are about to be overtaken
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April 25th, 2018, 04:25 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Some might say dowling on the race line significantly and grossly slower than is reasonable knowing a faster rider is approaching is reckless. It would certainly be reasonably to do what lap riders do all the time, be aware of one's surroundings, and in the interest of safety, move out of the way.

The thing is if the roles were reversed we could surely count on the slower rider being chastised for being flagrantly dangerously slow around Rossi. I'm sure if Marc had been close to 4 seconds slower than potential, and Rossi took the inside to pass and an incident ensued, I could already hear journalists and fans smugly lambasting Marc for getting in Rossi's way. This would be so predictable. As Michael Scott correctly points out, Rossi comes out smelling like roses even when he's the villain.

As I said in another post in reference to Espargaro making a point about available flags, a blue flag waved at dangerously slow Rossi at Argentina would have been appropriate. And I'll add, the arbitrary penalty RD issued for his contact with Espargaro, something normally not punished, was compounded by issuing a drop position penalty instead of 'safer' option of imposing a....oh how did David Emmett put it? Oh yeah, "time correction". But then again, it's not like RD have a stellar record on issuing penalties that are corresponding to the current situation on the track.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
The difference was less than 0.9 seconds. Hardly a dangerously slow ride. And there were other overtakes where the overtaking rider was having an equal or better speed delta between 46 and 93. They didnt crash too..
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April 25th, 2018, 06:40 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renjith_varma View Post
The difference was less than 0.9 seconds. Hardly a dangerously slow ride. And there were other overtakes where the overtaking rider was having an equal or better speed delta between 46 and 93. They didnt crash too..
rossi crashed on his own merit.
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April 25th, 2018, 07:32 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Just a point of order - A blue flag during a race is only used to warn a rider that he is about to be lapped or if they are leaving pit lane when traffic is approaching.

It's not used to warn a 'slower' rider they are about to be overtaken
Thanks, I'm aware, I was being cheeky. The way Espargaro described it in an interview was a flag to warn a slow rider that a significantly faster one is approaching. So maybe we can modify the blue flag, perhaps a blue flag with a turtle to alert the rider he's going slow, expect to be overtaken by a faster rider...


What do you think?



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Last edited by Jumkie; April 25th, 2018 at 07:44 AM.
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April 25th, 2018, 07:55 AM   #259
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That's hilarious.
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April 25th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #260
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...or in the interest of SAFETY, we can just have a special blue flag for Valengina Rossi, in the unlikely event Marc is behind him, a flag used to alert VR that Marc is about to pass. Perhaps Marc can bring up this suggestion at the next Safety Commission.


.

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Last edited by Jumkie; April 25th, 2018 at 08:14 AM.
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