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April 18th, 2018, 06:11 AM   #81
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Safe passing involves getting in front of the rider you're overtaking BEFORE the apex of the corner. Attempting to overtake another rider at the apex is almost always going to lead to incidents.
If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
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April 18th, 2018, 06:20 AM   #82
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Wrong, Rossi never knocked Marquez down at Sepang. Rossi broke the rules by slowing down and blocking Marquez, but it was Marquez that made contact with Rossi's bike.
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By turning into him? In that case, if that's you're argument then Rossi was the one who turned into Marquez when he tried to shut the door.
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That's untrue. Rossi stayed on his line and Marquez ran into him as Rossi attempted to apex the corner.
This is the problem Vudu. When Rossi was on the inside, you say Marquez ran into him, and when Rossi was on the outside, you say Marquez ran into him!

For what it's worth, I am not defending Marquez' actions in Argentina. If I had been Rossi I'd have felt aggrieved too, but Rossi wasn't completely blameless in the same way Marquez wasn't completely blameless in Sepang 2015.

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That's untrue. Rossi stayed on his line and Marquez ran into him as Rossi attempted to apex the corner.
So you could also say of Sepang 2015

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That's untrue. Marquez stayed on his line and Rossi ran into him as Marquez attempted to apex the corner.
All this is about is consistency. It;s not about Rossi Vs Marquez. Zarco caused Pedrosa to crash: No penatly. Canet DELIBERATELY caused another rider to crash: No penalty. If Marquez is worthy of a race ban as you are all calling for after Argentina. Then by your very own argument, Rossi was worthy of a race ban in 2015. If you apply the rules consistently that is unarguable.


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Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
Exactly.
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April 18th, 2018, 06:21 AM   #83
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If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
When any block pass is performed, the overtaking rider gets the line by being first to the apex. It's then the other rider's responsibility to yield the line. Marquez did not beat Rossi to the apex, he arrived at the same time (if not slightly late).
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April 18th, 2018, 06:46 AM   #84
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When any block pass is performed, the overtaking rider gets the line by being first to the apex. It's then the other rider's responsibility to yield the line. Marquez did not beat Rossi to the apex, he arrived at the same time (if not slightly late).
How can he have arrived at the same time when his bike was exactly where Rossi wanted to put his? By definition he must've been there first if Rossi had to run into him to hit the apex.
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April 18th, 2018, 06:55 AM   #85
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How can he have arrived at the same time when his bike was exactly where Rossi wanted to put his? By definition he must've been there first if Rossi had to run into him to hit the apex.
Marc took the inside line which was a shorter distance to the apex, yet he never got in front of Rossi prior to the apex. That means Rossi still had line preference. Had Marc arrived sooner, he would have successfully passed initially, but since he was on a line that would've resulted in a slow exit, Rossi very likely would've immediately repassed him. It was just another poor decision by Marquez during weekend that saw many poor decisions by him.
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April 18th, 2018, 07:13 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Marc took the inside line which was a shorter distance to the apex, yet he never got in front of Rossi prior to the apex. That means Rossi still had line preference. Had Marc arrived sooner, he would have successfully passed initially, but since he was on a line that would've resulted in a slow exit, Rossi very likely would've immediately repassed him. It was just another poor decision by Marquez during weekend that saw many poor decisions by him.
Vudu - to save him time why not just permanently insert "Danski likes this" in your sig?
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April 18th, 2018, 07:20 AM   #87
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April 18th, 2018, 07:34 AM   #88
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If Lorenzo didn't pick his bike up they both would've crashed. There is so many similarities in this incident but because Rossi's role was reversed you refuse to see it.
Not that much different to Pedrosa vs Simoncelli in 2011 for which Simoncelli was penalised imo, except that Simoncelli was the faster rider, had made up 4 seconds, and had passed Dani on the previous corner getting his whole bike in front.

I think any fault lies with MM in this incident who could have waited till they were through the corner given he was so much faster anyway but this was well down on the list of egregiously reckless passes, including several by Rossi and both Jerez last corner passes by the two riders involved; neither was staying on the track without using Gibernau and Lorenzo respectively as berms. In this one both were on respectable lines to make the corner on a clear track but arrived at the same point nearly simultaneously. Hard for me to judge without seeing the incident live given the views of so many since, but it looked to me that Rossi marginally had priority. I see nothing Machiavellian from Rossi or particularly reckless from MM; my late to the party impression is that neither expected the other to be there when the contact was made.
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April 18th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Marc took the inside line which was a shorter distance to the apex, yet he never got in front of Rossi prior to the apex. That means Rossi still had line preference. Had Marc arrived sooner, he would have successfully passed initially, but since he was on a line that would've resulted in a slow exit, Rossi very likely would've immediately repassed him. It was just another poor decision by Marquez during weekend that saw many poor decisions by him.
Rossi ceded the corner by leaving the door wide open.

No way around it.

There was enough of a gap for a bike to come through, but Rossi's situational awareness wasn't good enough to pick up on another bike coming through. We saw riders going into those types of gaps at Phillip Island 2015 numerous times to think off the top of my head.
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April 18th, 2018, 07:59 AM   #90
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Rossi ceded the corner by leaving the door wide open.

No way around it.

There was enough of a gap for a bike to come through, but Rossi's situational awareness wasn't good enough to pick up on another bike coming through. We saw riders going into those types of gaps at Phillip Island 2015 numerous times to think off the top of my head.
That's incorrect. The lead rider doesn't have to take a defensive line. If the door is "wide open" as you suggest, Marc should've made it through prior to the apex of the corner. If Marc couldn't do that, the door was not open enough for a safe pass which was Marc's responsibility.
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