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April 18th, 2018, 07:59 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I think any fault lies with MM in this incident who could have waited till they were through the corner given he was so much faster anyway but this was well down on the list of egregiously reckless passes, including several by Rossi and both Jerez last corner passes by the two riders involved; neither was staying on the track without using Gibernau and Lorenzo respectively as berms. In this one both were on respectable lines to make the corner on a clear track but arrived at the same point nearly simultaneously. Hard for me to judge without seeing the incident live given the views of so many since, but it looked to me that Rossi marginally had priority. I see nothing Machiavellian from Rossi or particularly reckless from MM; my late to the party impression is that neither expected the other to be there when the contact was made.
Agree with you 100% in terms of the on track antics, however I do feel that Vale's behaviour post-race has indeed been Machiavellian.
His comments have been deliberately inflammatory and exaggerated with the sole purposes of stirring up the masses and hopefully getting an unwarranted additional punishment imposed on Marc.
I really can't believe that a guy with Vale's experience and enjoyment of a good 'battle' is 'scared' to be on track.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:09 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That's incorrect. The lead rider doesn't have to take a defensive line. If the door is "wide open" as you suggest, Marc should've made it through prior to the apex of the corner. If Marc couldn't do that, the door was not open enough for a safe pass which was Marc's responsibility.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:13 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
That's incorrect. The lead rider doesn't have to take a defensive line. If the door is "wide open" as you suggest, Marc should've made it through prior to the apex of the corner. If Marc couldn't do that, the door was not open enough for a safe pass which was Marc's responsibility.
Again I didn't see the incident live in context, but they seemed to be taking fairly different lines through the corner, both of which were entirely feasible as opposed to the Jerez last corner lines taken by each rider in previous incidents involving other opponents. It would seem going by their respective recent lap times MM was much faster, and hence took a faster tighter line (because he could) and Rossi a slower more conservative line, and the two happened to intersect.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:21 AM   #94
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Again I didn't see the incident live in context, but they seemed to be taking fairly different lines through the corner, both of which were entirely feasible as opposed to the Jerez last corner lines taken by each rider in previous incidents involving other opponents. It would seem going by their respective recent lap times MM was much faster, and hence took a faster tighter line (because he could) and Rossi a slower more conservative line, and the two happened to intersect.
Rossi left enough of a gap that another bike could fit through.

MM did nothing wrong. You can debate whether he should have waited on the overtake but Rossi came down on him making contact unavoidable. A 30 second penalty was ludicrous given the other events that transpired and saw no penalties handed out.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:23 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by McZee View Post
Agree with you 100% in terms of the on track antics, however I do feel that Vale's behaviour post-race has indeed been Machiavellian.
His comments have been deliberately inflammatory and exaggerated with the sole purposes of stirring up the masses and hopefully getting an unwarranted additional punishment imposed on Marc.
I really can't believe that a guy with Vale's experience and enjoyment of a good 'battle' is 'scared' to be on track.
Absolutely agree, and exactly why I now dislike Rossi, and as a Stoner fanboy retrospectively blame him rather than just his fans for Stoner's vilification.

Amusing to see Rossi being considered justified and Stoner vilified for pretty much the same thing, complaints about reckless riding, particularly given the very close parallel incident at Jerez 2011.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:25 AM   #96
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Rossi left enough of a gap that another bike could fit through.

MM did nothing wrong. You can debate whether he should have waited on the overtake but Rossi came down on him making contact unavoidable. A 30 second penalty was ludicrous given the other events that transpired and saw no penalties handed out.
I am hardly a Rossi apologist, and agree the penalty was ludicrous. But my late formed opinion is that it is likely neither rider expected contact.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:29 AM   #97
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I am hardly a Rossi apologist, and agree the penalty was ludicrous. But my late formed opinion is that it is likely neither rider expected contact.
I agree neither expected contact, but it does happen.

It's just fascinating how vehemently opposed Rossi is to contact when he is on the receiving end of it, but never had any issue engaging in contact when it benefited the race he was running.
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April 18th, 2018, 08:46 AM   #98
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Vudu - to save him time why not just permanently insert "Danski likes this" in your sig?
Ruined!

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April 18th, 2018, 08:58 AM   #99
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Vudu - to save him time why not just permanently insert "Danski likes this" in your sig?
Gave me an idea
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April 18th, 2018, 09:06 AM   #100
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Vudu, look at this pic carefully, do you see the unorthodox line, sharp and oblique by Rossi and the natural arch of the normal racing line illustrated by everyone else? Misano 2016. Rossi didnít make the apex as you argue is required buddy. Lorenzo took evasive action because of the sharp unnatural approach by Rossi. If Rossi line was the correct one to negotiate that apex, you would have seen all the riders using that oblique arch. None use that sharp approach, illustrated by this picture because the apex is impossible using this arch. If Lorenzo refused to stand up the bike and collided with Rossi would you have demanded disqualification? Another point you make is that the inside rider must be ahead to have a right to that door, that is incorrect my friend! The inside rider only need be positioned along side to rightfully claim that space and then reasonably make the apex, big difference! You must demand Rossi be penalized retroactively then for Motegi on Lorenzo, Misano on Lorenzo, Jerez on Gibernau (I know) and on Stoner both at Jerez and Laguna. Rossi did not make the apex on neither of those incidents.

The second picture shows Marquez ahead of Rossi, so even if we use your standard for a classic overtaking in this situation, then Marquez had the right of way, Rossi should have conceded the position. If Rossi does the right thing here he would have simply lost the position and wouldn't have crashed. Marquez easily and correct makes the apex because his arch was in fact the natural one fir this turn, it was Rossi who took the tentative wide line to avoid a damp patch. I'm glad we are at least debating the incident and not taking the popular and universally accepted forgone conclusion that Marquez was at fault because he blew the start.



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