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April 20th, 2018, 06:14 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
Holy shit! All this over Kevin's typical diatribe? He wouldn't even have a title if Wayne's bike hadn't sucked ass and Wayne had not been hurt. Perhaps we should suspend all the riders who bumped more than once over the last thirty years. What say you Kevin? I think you might have missed a season, if they played by your rules back then. lol. Meanwhile, Giacomo Agostini seems to think Rossi maybe should STFU. And Freddie Spencer didn't like the rulings, and he has a lot more creds than KS. Jeebuz, was Schwantz even a contender?
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Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
Wayne hurting himself + Doohan still recovering from injuries.
Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they speak of him years later with respect. As to Rainey's bike being shite, really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a fucking wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki to the podium and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist bullshit.

Last edited by Keshav; April 21st, 2018 at 03:36 AM.
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April 20th, 2018, 06:59 PM   #192
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Last edited by michaelm; April 20th, 2018 at 07:35 PM.
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April 20th, 2018, 07:08 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they him p with respect. As to Rainey's bike being shite, really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a fucking wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist bullshit.
I was going to say the same, 25 wins on a Suzuki against some of the greatest riders of all time is utterly indisputable.

Doesn’t make him immune from talking drivel in his retirement, as Wayne Gardner whom I equally revered as a racer has also had a strong tendency to do.
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April 20th, 2018, 08:58 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Aww... come one guys. This retroactively trying to discredit Schwantz is kinda ridiculous. The guy won against the greats of his time and even they speak of him years later with respect. As to Rainey's bike being shite, really??? It was considered the best at the time and the Suzuki was universally considered to be technically several steps down from the Yamahas and Hondas, as it was (same as today) much underfunded - both the bike and the team. Speaking of injuries - for those with short memories - Schwantz who was a fucking wildman, crashed a lot trying to take that insane Suzuki and was constantly written up in the press that specifically wrote about how gutsy he was to ride in that no-holds barred way in as much pain as he was in, and that was in the day when medical sciences were not nearly as advanced as those of today.

It's not to say that he can't be wrong... but to downplay his championship is some serious revisionist bullshit.
Revisionist? Rainey was leading the Championship and leading the race when he crashed and was paralyzed. Rainey actually got a different frame from an outside source, because the Yamaha chassis was so bad. I will find the name of the company, later. I do not remember it, now. EDIT: HA. It is actually in the article that I linked below:
Quote:
... Rainey struggling so badly that he junked his factory chassis and switched to a Swiss-made ROC.
I just think Kevin has a lot of nerve suggesting MM should be suspended for an entire season, considering all the dangerous stuff he did when he raced. So I am going to stick it to him for talking shit. ;-)
motorsports magazine
Quote:
1993 was different from the get-go. Yamaha had taken a wrong turn in chassis development, building a chassis of extruded sections of aluminium that was far too stiff and thus overworked the tyres. This episode was almost certainly the start of the factory’s understanding of the science of controlled flex in chassis design. It’s worth remembering that Yamaha’s current MotoGP boss Masahiko Nakajima worked on Rainey’s YZR500s. At the same time Suzuki had finally got their fickle RGV500 properly dialled in, so for once, Yamaha didn’t have the best bike.

Last edited by Iamapony; April 20th, 2018 at 09:38 PM. Reason: The information is in the article.
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April 20th, 2018, 09:29 PM   #195
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Rainey turned to French company ROC for the frame, after being told he couldn’t have his previous year’s frame because it had been crushed as per company policy at the time.
He was ultimately forced to use the current factory frame which led to his misano crash.
Ironically Yamaha’s poor and draconian treatment of Rainey taught them a harsh lesson and gave them 10 years in the doldrums. Since then they’ve bent over backwards for their riders and Rossi and Lorenzo delivered them several titles.
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April 20th, 2018, 09:40 PM   #196
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Thanks, I was editing my post as you posted. Can you imagine someone doing that, today. I don't think so. lol
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April 21st, 2018, 03:43 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
Revisionist? Rainey was leading the Championship and leading the race when he crashed and was paralyzed. Rainey actually got a different frame from an outside source, because the Yamaha chassis was so bad. I will find the name of the company, later. I do not remember it, now. EDIT: HA. It is actually in the article that I linked below:


I just think Kevin has a lot of nerve suggesting MM should be suspended for an entire season, considering all the dangerous stuff he did when he raced. So I am going to stick it to him for talking shit. ;-)
motorsports magazine
Using outside frames was more common than the average fan would have been aware of. I've mentioned this before several times. Erv Kanemoto was often at odds with Honda for doing this. Japanese makers were historically more focused on the engines. Lots of European teams were using frames from non-Japanese companies. Every chassis was distinctly different as were the hand-welded expansion chambers. That the Yamaha made more useable power (relative to engines of that time) was widely accepted at the time.

Who was "leading" the championship is not a de facto indicator of the championship results. Look who's leading now.

Last edited by Keshav; April 21st, 2018 at 03:45 AM.
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April 21st, 2018, 04:27 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Using outside frames was more common than the average fan would have been aware of. I've mentioned this before several times. Erv Kanemoto was often at odds with Honda for doing this. Japanese makers were historically more focused on the engines. Lots of European teams were using frames from non-Japanese companies. Every chassis was distinctly different as were the hand-welded expansion chambers. That the Yamaha made more useable power (relative to engines of that time) was widely accepted at the time.

Who was "leading" the championship is not a de facto indicator of the championship results. Look who's leading now.
In 1984 as I recall, Sheene dumped the original Suzuki chassis in favour of a specially built Harris steel tube set up using his own requirements regarding head angle etc,
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