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April 12th, 2018, 10:35 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by robains View Post
Have any of you actually raced in the real world? I have (not motorcycles, but other vehicles from Lotus to Shifter Karts) ... only a fool would attempt what Marquez did and for no real benefit.

It doesn't take much "sense" to know if you're lapping at 1.2 seconds faster to figure out how to win the race ... but this entire "drama" started with Marquez who with all his "talent" stalled on the Grid. Then used his "influence" to somehow avoid being DQ'd for ignoring the officials and riding in the OPPOSITE direction on track ... a ride thru penalty only, wow, simply unbelievable! Lucky guy I guess, I've never seen anything like that in the 14 years I was racing.

I've stalled on the grid before in the real world of racing (shifter Karts) "before" the flag ... I raise my hands waiving, the Marshals either hold the field and get me restarted and then place me at the very BACK of the grid, OR they wheel me/vehicle off the track, the other racers do another formation lap and I start from the pits. Fairly standard rules used by every race organization from F1 to Amateurs.

What doesn't happen is what Marquez got away with on the grid, never seen that happen, ever!

If you folks want to moan on about there "being a gap" go for it, but an experienced racer will know the difference between a gap that is going to have the door shut vs. a gap of viability giving the other rider/driver an opportunity to "adjust".

But what several of you fail to comprehend is that with a helmet and earplugs there will be a point in time when you can hear nothing but your own vehicle and you commit to the corner, a rider will not hear another vehicle coming from that far back until after they have committed to the corner. Marquez knows this, any rider/driver knows this ... it was another display of a stupid mistake my Marquez ... something that didn't need to happen given he clearly had the bike setup for the conditions and no one else did.

I've retired from racing now after 14 years or so, getting too old and it started feel more like "work" than "enjoyment".

125cc shifters


Lotus Thunderhill Qual


Lotus Laguna


Lotus Infineon


Lotus Cup Fontana


Big heavy Mustangs


The gap that wasn't there


I've encountered just about every type of racer, I've had my good and bad days, but if I had a Marquez day, I would have been blacklisted (this is a bad thing in the racing community) and most likely not permitted to race in other organization as ignoring officials is a major NO NO ... and yes I've had plenty of wins/podiums for my vehicle(s) of choice in my class and overall.

At the end of the day, it's just racing and it's NOT the meaning of life and it certainly isn't a cure for cancer.

Cheers, Rob.
And at the end of the day, your post is nothing more than argumentum ad verecundiam and ultimately, a product of your own opinion.
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April 12th, 2018, 11:07 PM   #52
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No space! Pffft rossi either went so wide accidentally or .... he lured Marquez in to take the pass.

You could fit a mine truck in that gap!

Car racing is the same as bike racing .... never heard such a stupid thing.
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April 13th, 2018, 04:44 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Have any of you actually raced in the real world? I have (not motorcycles, but other vehicles from Lotus to Shifter Karts) ... only a fool would attempt what Marquez did and for no real benefit.

It doesn't take much "sense" to know if you're lapping at 1.2 seconds faster to figure out how to win the race ... but this entire "drama" started with Marquez who with all his "talent" stalled on the Grid. Then used his "influence" to somehow avoid being DQ'd for ignoring the officials and riding in the OPPOSITE direction on track ... a ride thru penalty only, wow, simply unbelievable! Lucky guy I guess, I've never seen anything like that in the 14 years I was racing.

I've stalled on the grid before in the real world of racing (shifter Karts) "before" the flag ... I raise my hands waiving, the Marshals either hold the field and get me restarted and then place me at the very BACK of the grid, OR they wheel me/vehicle off the track, the other racers do another formation lap and I start from the pits. Fairly standard rules used by every race organization from F1 to Amateurs.
.
Nice to meet a fellow shifter kart racer. But to some people on here, it is no better than Mariokart, so that won't carry much weight
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April 13th, 2018, 08:02 AM   #54
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Ah the internet, twist what wasn't said into something else ... isn't "fake news" the current cry for people that don't want to believe facts? But I suppose there are some that still believe the earth is flat and gravity doesn't exist ... so I guess you can pretend anything is an opinion. I suppose Marquez stalling his bike didn't actually happen ... I mean how could it since Marquez has so much "talent"? Just my opinion right?

Race direction was pointing Marquez to the side of the track (did any of you actually watch the race), multiple crew members on the pit wall heard two stewards telling Marquez to go to pit lane.

Cheers, Rob.
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April 13th, 2018, 08:07 AM   #55
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It is impossible to restart the MotoGP bike engine by rider alone pushing the bike. So the only conclusion is: none of this really happened.
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April 13th, 2018, 08:17 AM   #56
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If Marquez had just broke some many rules, and apparently he had and was bluffing them into starting the race anway, why did they start the race?
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April 13th, 2018, 09:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Ah the internet, twist what wasn't said into something else ... isn't "fake news" the current cry for people that don't want to believe facts? But I suppose there are some that still believe the earth is flat and gravity doesn't exist ... so I guess you can pretend anything is an opinion. I suppose Marquez stalling his bike didn't actually happen ... I mean how could it since Marquez has so much "talent"? Just my opinion right?

Race direction was pointing Marquez to the side of the track (did any of you actually watch the race), multiple crew members on the pit wall heard two stewards telling Marquez to go to pit lane.

Cheers, Rob.
Rob, who is disputing the "facts" you just mentioned? The bike stalled, fact. Marc raised his hand like he was supposed to (as per the rules) for over a minute, I might add, fact. The marshal adjacent to him then lowered his board, indicating there were procedures in play that were altered, FACT! Now this is where the point of divergence begins, which you fail to accept or understand. Whatever rules they had just made up were not understood and confusion deemed it necessary that riders test the fresh newly fabricated procedures. At that point the reaction of the marshals giving mixed signals (fact) regarding the starting procedure (which there was absolutely no precedent for, ever, fact) had just been made up out of thing air INDICATED these were in flux. Fact. That is to say, the procedures were not only misunderstood by the marshals, but the procedures were not entirely understood by anyone, not even the TV commentators, as they did not object to the very thing you are objecting, and sure you were not jumping up and down at the start of the race saying, hey, black flag, that being that Marc was supposed to be DQed immediately. Why? Because you were confused as anybody else given the procedures were nothing like we had ever seen.

You are stating this in hindsight, and I suspect everybody parroting your sentiment, like “journalist” and social media piling on calling for bans, and accusing Marc of all manners of ills and disrespect, would have had very little to say had Marc not committed the ‘ultimate crime’ (which btw is not him riding his bike counter direction, as you guys are trying to make it out, as if him walking his bike ‘backwards’ was the exoneration you required, something we’ve seen before but not called the crime of the century) but rather the carnal sin of molesting Rossi, that is his ultimate crime! (This is easily sussed from the lack of grandstanding outrage and self gratifying indignation for all the other incidents, such as involving Zarco causing injury to Pedros, Petrucci using his bike as a sledge hammer on Espargaro, Canet going Rossi losing his mind and deliberately attacking another rider using his bike as the weapon). The 'fact' that Race Direction issued a ride though penalty rather than a black flag (as you are demanding was supposed to happen) INDICATES, no CONFIRMS the fact the rules were ALTERED, in flux, fluid, inconsistent, and confusing. Are these not facts? You are demanding that Marc act as a mind reader and decipher in real time what the marshals failed to do, given the new rules in play factoring in the mixed signals by the confused marshals who are in FACT supposed to know and ‘enforce’ the situation. They gave him a “thumbs up”. If I as an official walk over to your 4-wheeled car before the race and you seem confused because I’ve just changed the rules 5 mins before, and you’re asking are you ok to start, I give you a thumbs up, you're arguing that you wouldn't recognize the universal sign for saying, carry on, you’re good. Maybe that’s not a fact?

When he later got the ride through penalty, you are demanding that Marc park his bike in the garage when he came in, because as you say, he was so supposed to be black flagged and he was supposed to ‘know’ this, rather than a ride through, therefore the message to Marc was again, the rules are in flux. He may have contemplated as he rode through pit lane, complying obediently (not defiant and arrogant like you and others are painting him, keep in mind he also immediately complied with the drop down on position, and even went further back than he was required to INDICATE he is compliant) serving his penalty, ‘That’s odd, I was right, the rules clearly changed', might have been his thought, and he would be right to think that if he would have reflected on screwing up the start. Right? Because as you say, he should have known the penalty for what he did was a black flag, and in FACT that was not issued. So that would have been another indication, no actually CONFIRMATION (big difference) that the rules were in fact altered, in flux. If we’re going to entertain yours and those out with pitchforks for Marc, then lets also factor in the ‘facts’ that were available to him in his decision making, and the indications that he was in fact compliant to the whims of the authorities.
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Last edited by Jumkie; April 13th, 2018 at 09:47 AM.
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April 13th, 2018, 09:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
If Marquez had just broke some many rules, and apparently he had and was bluffing them into starting the race anway, why did they start the race?
Because they ignored existing rules, imposed a 20 minutes delay instead, and were running out of time - TV companies had time slot reserved.
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April 13th, 2018, 12:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Have any of you actually raced in the real world?
As an amateur yes on motorbikes, 1968 to 1994 from 125's up to 1000's, but my favourites are the 400/500's.

Have I ever had an experience like that, well yes, I got onto some wet stuff and ran wide at Clearways (Brands Hatch) then got t-boned by another rider who completely lost his bike, result was one broken leg and left forearm, 3 cracked ribs.

Will that do?
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April 13th, 2018, 12:55 PM   #60
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But nothing, racing bikes vs anything with 4 wheels is incomparable.
like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tlxG1-aWtI
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