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April 12th, 2018, 01:43 PM   #41
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Have any of you actually raced in the real world? I have (not motorcycles, but other vehicles from Lotus to Shifter Karts) ... only a fool would attempt what Marquez did and for no real benefit.

It doesn't take much "sense" to know if you're lapping at 1.2 seconds faster to figure out how to win the race ... but this entire "drama" started with Marquez who with all his "talent" stalled on the Grid. Then used his "influence" to somehow avoid being DQ'd for ignoring the officials and riding in the OPPOSITE direction on track ... a ride thru penalty only, wow, simply unbelievable! Lucky guy I guess, I've never seen anything like that in the 14 years I was racing.

I've stalled on the grid before in the real world of racing (shifter Karts) "before" the flag ... I raise my hands waiving, the Marshals either hold the field and get me restarted and then place me at the very BACK of the grid, OR they wheel me/vehicle off the track, the other racers do another formation lap and I start from the pits. Fairly standard rules used by every race organization from F1 to Amateurs.

What doesn't happen is what Marquez got away with on the grid, never seen that happen, ever!

If you folks want to moan on about there "being a gap" go for it, but an experienced racer will know the difference between a gap that is going to have the door shut vs. a gap of viability giving the other rider/driver an opportunity to "adjust".

But what several of you fail to comprehend is that with a helmet and earplugs there will be a point in time when you can hear nothing but your own vehicle and you commit to the corner, a rider will not hear another vehicle coming from that far back until after they have committed to the corner. Marquez knows this, any rider/driver knows this ... it was another display of a stupid mistake my Marquez ... something that didn't need to happen given he clearly had the bike setup for the conditions and no one else did.

I've retired from racing now after 14 years or so, getting too old and it started feel more like "work" than "enjoyment".

125cc shifters


Lotus Thunderhill Qual


Lotus Laguna


Lotus Infineon


Lotus Cup Fontana


Big heavy Mustangs


The gap that wasn't there


I've encountered just about every type of racer, I've had my good and bad days, but if I had a Marquez day, I would have been blacklisted (this is a bad thing in the racing community) and most likely not permitted to race in other organization as ignoring officials is a major NO NO ... and yes I've had plenty of wins/podiums for my vehicle(s) of choice in my class and overall.

At the end of the day, it's just racing and it's NOT the meaning of life and it certainly isn't a cure for cancer.

Cheers, Rob.
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April 12th, 2018, 03:26 PM   #42
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Rob, looks like you know a lot about 4-wheel racing. Thanks for sharing vids of you driving.

If you had a few more Marquez days you could be driving for F1.

You seem to be arguing that Marc should have DQed himself, or took over the marshalls job, not sure how he used his influence to get a pass and simultaneously get a penalty. But then again I've read fans argue the logic that Rossi was right about Marc helping Lorenzo at Phillip Island by taking points away from him, which naturally was deserving of getting punted at Sepang. I'm sure Rossi's influence had no affect on race direction though, who restrained themselves in issuing a 30 sec penalty, much less a black flag.

I tell you what, if you concede that Rossi deserved an immediate DQ and subsequent race ban at Sepang 15, I'll agree that Marc deserves to be DQed and serve a race ban for Argentina 17, deal? You would be getting a deal, given that Rossi's punt was deliberate and Marc's was a racing incident.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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Last edited by Jumkie; April 12th, 2018 at 03:46 PM.
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April 12th, 2018, 03:58 PM   #43
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The number of wheels makes no difference to "circuit racing", the rules, the concept, the money involved, the equipment, the level of injuries, the contact, what one can and can't get away with, etc. etc.

I've lived in both houses, glass and dog as have most of my competitors ... doesn't change the rather "weak" penalties issued against Marquez ... Marquez knows what he did hence the arm up in apology on both contacts. The issue is not that Marquez made several errors in judgement, it's how FIM/DORNA "relaxed" the rules ... that's the problem. Don't really care if someone claims they relaxed the rules for Rossi also ... two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm still baffled at why ignoring the stewards and driving the wrong direction on track resulted in only a "drive-thru" penalty. That's two different penalties also, but somehow it got lumped into one penalty??

Personally think Dovi will win this championship (and I hope he does, much more talent than Marquez on a beast of a bike that Lorenzo and Rossi couldn't handle), he knows how to manage Marquez last corner antics.

Cheers, Rob.
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April 12th, 2018, 04:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
The number of wheels makes no difference to "circuit racing", the rules, the concept, the money involved, the equipment, the level of injuries, the contact, what one can and can't get away with, etc. etc.

I've lived in both houses, glass and dog as have most of my competitors ... doesn't change the rather "weak" penalties issued against Marquez ... Marquez knows what he did hence the arm up in apology on both contacts. The issue is not that Marquez made several errors in judgement, it's how FIM/DORNA "relaxed" the rules ... that's the problem. Don't really care if someone claims they relaxed the rules for Rossi also ... two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm still baffled at why ignoring the stewards and driving the wrong direction on track resulted in only a "drive-thru" penalty. That's two different penalties also, but somehow it got lumped into one penalty??

Personally think Dovi will win this championship (and I hope he does, much more talent than Marquez on a beast of a bike that Lorenzo and Rossi couldn't handle), he knows how to manage Marquez last corner antics.

Cheers, Rob.
Still canít admit Rossi got off easy in 15 for a deliberate act, yet you call for bans on Marquez for a racing incident. You sir are THE definition of a bopper fanboy.
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April 12th, 2018, 04:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
The number of wheels makes no difference to "circuit racing", the rules, the concept, the money involved, the equipment, the level of injuries, the contact, what one can and can't get away with, etc. etc.

I've lived in both houses, glass and dog as have most of my competitors ... doesn't change the rather "weak" penalties issued against Marquez ... Marquez knows what he did hence the arm up in apology on both contacts. The issue is not that Marquez made several errors in judgement, it's how FIM/DORNA "relaxed" the rules ... that's the problem. Don't really care if someone claims they relaxed the rules for Rossi also ... two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm still baffled at why ignoring the stewards and driving the wrong direction on track resulted in only a "drive-thru" penalty. That's two different penalties also, but somehow it got lumped into one penalty??

Personally think Dovi will win this championship (and I hope he does, much more talent than Marquez on a beast of a bike that Lorenzo and Rossi couldn't handle), he knows how to manage Marquez last corner antics.

Cheers, Rob.
Did he ignore the stewards though?,Puig claimed in his press conference that the stewards did not direct him to pit lane as they should have, in which case fault lies with the race organisers.
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April 12th, 2018, 05:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
The number of wheels makes no difference to "circuit racing", the rules, the concept, the money involved, the equipment, the level of injuries, the contact, what one can and can't get away with, etc. etc.

I've lived in both houses, glass and dog as have most of my competitors ... doesn't change the rather "weak" penalties issued against Marquez ... Marquez knows what he did hence the arm up in apology on both contacts. The issue is not that Marquez made several errors in judgement, it's how FIM/DORNA "relaxed" the rules ... that's the problem. Don't really care if someone claims they relaxed the rules for Rossi also ... two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm still baffled at why ignoring the stewards and driving the wrong direction on track resulted in only a "drive-thru" penalty. That's two different penalties also, but somehow it got lumped into one penalty??

Personally think Dovi will win this championship (and I hope he does, much more talent than Marquez on a beast of a bike that Lorenzo and Rossi couldn't handle), he knows how to manage Marquez last corner antics.

Cheers, Rob.
Having racing experience and having an unbiased perspective do not necessarily relate to each other at all, and as has been said if you parrot the Rossi narrative then you parrot the Rossi narrative. There are several regular posters on here with racing experience, not that I am one of them.

I would have thought the whole thing started with the shambles at the start when the organisers realised the leading riders were on the wrong tires which might impact the box office. They have been so inconsistent I am not surprised riders are confused or even ignore them. At other levels including I would imagine at the level you raced the race officials are not an arm of a media company and can operate independently/in a more disinterested fashion.

If he broke a rule or ignored officials fine, penalise him for that, but he was penalised for the pass on Rossi, pretty similar to very many Rossi has made, and much less egregious than at least 4 incidents in Rossi’s career, 2 of which were absolutely deliberate on his part, after the last of which RD said they needed to weigh the evidence and it was inappropriate to levy a penalty in race. The Jerez 2011 thing with Stoner was pretty much a direct parallel, down to the post race apologies, except for Rossi’s error being much more egregious in much more dangerous conditions and the response to the apology being much more muted, yet you guys argued black is white on that incident and are now arguing white is black on this one.

Last edited by michaelm; April 12th, 2018 at 10:49 PM.
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April 12th, 2018, 05:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
The number of wheels makes no difference to "circuit racing", the rules, the concept, the money involved, the equipment, the level of injuries, the contact, what one can and can't get away with, etc. etc.
.
What a truckload of bullshit. I was wondering why you didnt get that Marc did nothing wrong with rossi.

Rossi created that situation. And you boppers just start with the assumption that rossi is never wrong and then create absolute bullshit from there.

You are a car racer ..... nothing like a bike on a track. Speed your reactions and mind up 5 times whilst relying on some pretty intensive balance and motion skills and bike control ..... and youd half understand.

Not surprised you dont see rossi is at fault here. Speed you brain up before you come up with such bullshit. Oh and hint ... dont take the immediate reactions of the commentators.

Last edited by BarryMachine; April 12th, 2018 at 10:38 PM.
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April 12th, 2018, 07:19 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Have any of you actually raced in the real world? I have (not motorcycles, but other vehicles from Lotus to Shifter Karts) ... only a fool would attempt what Marquez did and for no real benefit.

It doesn't take much "sense" to know if you're lapping at 1.2 seconds faster to figure out how to win the race ... but this entire "drama" started with Marquez who with all his "talent" stalled on the Grid. Then used his "influence" to somehow avoid being DQ'd for ignoring the officials and riding in the OPPOSITE direction on track ... a ride thru penalty only, wow, simply unbelievable! Lucky guy I guess, I've never seen anything like that in the 14 years I was racing.

I've stalled on the grid before in the real world of racing (shifter Karts) "before" the flag ... I raise my hands waiving, the Marshals either hold the field and get me restarted and then place me at the very BACK of the grid, OR they wheel me/vehicle off the track, the other racers do another formation lap and I start from the pits. Fairly standard rules used by every race organization from F1 to Amateurs.

What doesn't happen is what Marquez got away with on the grid, never seen that happen, ever!

If you folks want to moan on about there "being a gap" go for it, but an experienced racer will know the difference between a gap that is going to have the door shut vs. a gap of viability giving the other rider/driver an opportunity to "adjust".

But what several of you fail to comprehend is that with a helmet and earplugs there will be a point in time when you can hear nothing but your own vehicle and you commit to the corner, a rider will not hear another vehicle coming from that far back until after they have committed to the corner. Marquez knows this, any rider/driver knows this ... it was another display of a stupid mistake my Marquez ... something that didn't need to happen given he clearly had the bike setup for the conditions and no one else did.

I've retired from racing now after 14 years or so, getting too old and it started feel more like "work" than "enjoyment".

125cc shifters


Lotus Thunderhill Qual


Lotus Laguna


Lotus Infineon


Lotus Cup Fontana


Big heavy Mustangs


The gap that wasn't there


I've encountered just about every type of racer, I've had my good and bad days, but if I had a Marquez day, I would have been blacklisted (this is a bad thing in the racing community) and most likely not permitted to race in other organization as ignoring officials is a major NO NO ... and yes I've had plenty of wins/podiums for my vehicle(s) of choice in my class and overall.

At the end of the day, it's just racing and it's NOT the meaning of life and it certainly isn't a cure for cancer.

Cheers, Rob.
But nothing, racing bikes vs anything with 4 wheels is incomparable.
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April 12th, 2018, 09:20 PM   #49
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Also Marquez didn't disobey any officials despite what the commentators have said.
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April 12th, 2018, 10:34 PM   #50
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Like povol said.. can we please desist from click bait titles for threads on here?, it's fucking annoying,rant over.
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