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April 11th, 2018, 10:51 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
How about he's been awesome every year of his career other than on a Ducati?

Suzuki should be thanking their lucky stars to have a rider of his caliber.
What's his worth then?

If there's a Moto2 hotshot who looks like he might really be something will race for 2 million, then what is Lorenzo worth.

Lorenzo might really be something on a Suzuki. But, then again, he was supposed to be really something on a Ducati. He wasn't supposed to lose the championship to a rookie Marquez. He should be able to ride any fucking bike with wheels to better than last place (or whatever is was) no matter what the weather is.

He's got a lot of baggage.

I'd take my chances with a young guy if I had to sign the cheque.
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April 11th, 2018, 11:11 AM   #32
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Itís a little foggy, refresh my memory at which point in your utterly forgettable non career as a back marker did you become an authoritative voice in motogp prototype development...
Again, entirely predictable. When you have no logic or evidence-based retort - you resort to deflecting and pettifogging with irrelevancies and tiny-tot insults, because like all boppers (and I stand on the shoulders of giants when I say this) you are a condescending tit of the highest order
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April 11th, 2018, 11:15 AM   #33
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The Suzuki riders are both happy with the new bike and praise the new engine which, combined with their superior handling makes it a great package while the Yamaha riders have said multiple times that they are lagging behind in electronics and need to hire more engineers ASAP. Zarco discarded the ill fated 2017 bike and went straight back to the 2015 bike.

I know I can’t expect much from the chief burger flipper for McLaren, but this even surpasses the utterly moronic post you made about spec electronics the other day.

Some people are just not meant to be smart. Accept you are one of those and stop writing checks with your fingers your brain cannot cash.
Yeah right! Like Rossi would ever come out and say to the press; the the 2018 M1 sucks ass because the engineers developed the bike based on my shit feedback. Or like Vinales would publically blame Rossi.
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April 11th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #34
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What's his worth then?

If there's a Moto2 hotshot who looks like he might really be something will race for 2 million, then what is Lorenzo worth.
That's the thing - on one hand you have a Moto2 hotshot with potential (like Rins). On the other hand, you have a 5 time world champ that has beaten the likes of Rossi, Marquez and Stoner head to head.

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Lorenzo might really be something on a Suzuki. But, then again, he was supposed to be really something on a Ducati.
He doesn't have a point and shoot style (like the Ducati). Most expected him to struggle. He's a pure corner speed rider. The Suzuki is arguably the best corner speed bike on the grid.

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He wasn't supposed to lose the championship to a rookie Marquez.
He was much stronger than MM in 2013. He almost beat MM even though he broke his collarbone twice. MM crashed five or six times more than JL that season (including that insane crash at Mugello at 340km/h), but miraculously avoided injury.

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He should be able to ride any fucking bike with wheels to better than last place (or whatever is was) no matter what the weather is.
Agreed, he's too temperamental. When he's on, he's untouchable. When he's off, he can be a mile off. That's why, even though he won more races than Rossi in 2015, it was a very close title fight.

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I'd take my chances with a young guy if I had to sign the cheque.
I reckon JL won't be so expensive because he doesn't have so many options. Yamaha has no spare seats, Duke isn't an option, Honda will go with Pedro or Zarco, so...
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April 11th, 2018, 11:27 AM   #35
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Yeah right! Like Rossi would ever come out and say to the press; the the 2018 M1 sucks ass because the engineers developed the bike based on my shit feedback. Or like Vinales would publically blame Rossi.
Actually, MV led Yamaha down the wrong direction with the 17 M1. He ultimately reversed direction and is now following Rossi's direction (by going towards the 15 frame concept).
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April 11th, 2018, 11:34 AM   #36
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That's the thing - on one hand you have a Moto2 hotshot with potential (like Rins). On the other hand, you have a 5 time world champ that has beaten the likes of Rossi, Marquez and Stoner head to head.
Not to drag this out forever ...

You have to look at how relevant each of those championships are to where we are now. I haven't done that, so this isn't really an example, but if he won in 2012 because Stoner broke his ankle does that championship really count in assessing his worth?


Quote:
He doesn't have a point and shoot style (like the Ducati). Most expected him to struggle. He's a pure corner speed rider. The Suzuki is arguably the best corner speed bike on the grid.
Probably true. But he's demonstrated that he can't get on any bike and win. It has to be a specific bike under specific circumstances. That lowers his value, in my opinion.

Quote:
He was much stronger than MM in 2013. He almost beat MM even though he broke his collarbone twice. MM crashed five or six times more than JL that season (including that insane crash at Mugello at 340km/h), but miraculously avoided injury.
He didn't beat him. That was his job. He's hired to win the championship. Not win or have a darn good excuse. This lowers his value, in my opinion.

Quote:
Agreed, he's too temperamental. When he's on, he's untouchable. When he's off, he can be a mile off. That's why, even though he won more races than Rossi in 2015, it was a very close title fight.
Yup.

Quote:
I reckon JL won't be so expensive because he doesn't have so many options. Yamaha has no spare seats, Duke isn't an option, Honda will go with Pedro or Zarco, so...
Yup, again.

All this doesn't mean I can't be his fan. All it means is I wouldn't write him a cheque to race for me.
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April 11th, 2018, 11:56 AM   #37
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I think we broadly agree. Just a few comments below.

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Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
Not to drag this out forever ...

You have to look at how relevant each of those championships are to where we are now. I haven't done that, so this isn't really an example, but if he won in 2012 because Stoner broke his ankle does that championship really count in assessing his worth?
He was already well ahead in the title chase at that point. Similarly, Lorenzo ground his finger to a pulp in 2011 at PI, but I don't think that devalues CS's championship. No-one forced CS to fall off in 2012, and no-one forced JL to fall off in 2011.


Quote:
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Probably true. But he's demonstrated that he can't get on any bike and win. It has to be a specific bike under specific circumstances. That lowers his value, in my opinion.
Agreed - but my basic point is that he's still among a very select few that can whip the field when he feels good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
He didn't beat him. That was his job. He's hired to win the championship. Not win or have a darn good excuse. This lowers his value, in my opinion.
I thought that breaking his collarbone twice and almost winning the title is a decent excuse.
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April 11th, 2018, 11:59 AM   #38
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Probably true. But he's demonstrated that he can't get on any bike and win. It has to be a specific bike under specific circumstances. That lowers his value, in my opinion.
To be fair there aren't many riders who have.
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April 11th, 2018, 12:02 PM   #39
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Again, entirely predictable. When you have no logic or evidence-based retort - you resort to deflecting and pettifogging with irrelevancies and tiny-tot insults, because like all boppers (and I stand on the shoulders of giants when I say this) you are a condescending tit of the highest order
What's pettifogging?
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April 11th, 2018, 12:15 PM   #40
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Pettifogging.
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