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March 28th, 2018, 04:41 AM   #81
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Actually NYC comprises 39% of NY State's overall population and supports way more than its share in order to prop up the rest of the state. This is very much an established fact.

The school systems were something I mentioned in an earlier post. I don't have kids - but everyone benefits from a more educated populace.

Re: endless congestion, I don't really find that to be true for me. Of course I don't commute into Manhattan for work, but if I had to, I could take a bus in and ride in comfort without having to drive. Yes - the NY subway system is crowded during the rush hour - but that's true in any major city. And nobody is forced to live in Manhattan. People flock there because of job opportunities and the amazing cultural diversity and the way it's all expressed in the arts and dining etc..

Re: snow and roads. True there's no snow in Fl but then there's no proper changing of the seasons either. So roads don't experience the same kind of wear and tear hence not needing the high degree of maintenence.

Florida's economy is 97% tourism, great if you own hotels - less than optimal if you're a bellboy or a maid. Next biggest chunk is agriculture - great if you have money to own an orange farm - not so great if you pick oranges. Third is International Trade; great if you own a shipping or if you're a high end broker, less than great if you're a trucker or a dock worker. A tiny remaining wedge is aerospace and investment.

For myself and many others the diversity of the landscape is a huge attraction. I've gone to school in Fl and been back many times and always found the flatness incredibly boring and the general uniformity of concrete box architecture enervating.

I could if I had to, live in Miami - but that's not a cheap place to live either. For me the winters are okay. Personally - I don't like extreme heat for months on end and Fl in the summer is an oven. And if you're put off by a bit of snow, you'll really hate the hurricanes that destroy Floridian lives and property like clockwork.
As is California losing populace because of taxing to fund welfare or as you call it, social services. If you have the time, look up the multi billion dollar companies
that have fled California.
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March 28th, 2018, 05:30 AM   #82
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As is California losing populace because of taxing to fund welfare or as you call it, social services. If you have the time, look up the multi billion dollar companies
that have fled California.
Pov, that's your point of view. If you think funding for day care for single mothers who have to work two jobs because they can't live on minimum wage is "welfare" what can I say? I'm guessing you think funding the arts is also welfare. And California Head Start Head Start a program that promotes the school readiness of children from birth to age five from low-income families by enhancing their cognitive, and social skills - this is "welfare". California National School Breakfast and Lunch Program - which provides food to children of low income families like say the Mexicans who work their guts out farming the fruits and vegetables for $4.00 an hour so you can buy them cheap in Tennesee. Welfare right??? Or is that the cheap produce you buy is in fact subsidized by the government because these people would starve to death without these social programs, while providing you with cheap produce???

Same goes for corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks like at the Walmart that you all benefit from when you go to buy cheap flatscreens and cheap firearms and cheap produce which they make obscene profits on only because Walmart pays slave wages which are kept in place by the "good politics" of your state government. Minimum wage in Tn is fucking $7.25 an hour. Could you live on that? This is government mandated peonage. If that's your idea of good government, you can keep it.

Most billion dollar companies, like Apple never want to pay their fair share of taxes and have no social conscience to speak of. They're for the most part giant spreaders of the affluenza disease with little regard for fellow humans which doesn't make them in my mind in any way admirable. The problem is not the State of California. The problem is kleptocratic greed and a sociopathic lack of human empathy and civil responsibility.

When billion dollar companies are allowed to pay little or no taxes - you too suffer the effects. When companies pay their fair share of the tax burden, your kids get more affordable education, your gas and booze is cheaper due to less taxes and infrastructure is improved and there's more money for local agencies to uphold standards in healthcare facilities, and money to make sure your air and water is clean to breathe and drink (tho not if Trump has any say). It pays for regulatory agencies charged with making sure the pharmaceutical companies don't poison you with untested drugs. Your cost of living would be even lower if billion dollar companies merely paid what they are legally obligated to pay. Affordable colleges means a better educated public with more people in meaningful jobs which provably equates to decreased crime and less anxiety about having to defend your home with an AK 47. I have to say, I am pretty tired of people who call everything non-whites receive as benefits from taxes as "welfare" and everything white folks receive as their "earned return from taxes paid". Everybody pays taxes.

This is not just some utopian fantasy I'm talking about. I'm living proof that this stuff works to change society for the better. I came from immigrant parents and was raised by a single mom who needed to collect welfare for a time until she could get on her feet. The money from the government allowed her to work and put aside enough money for me to go to a good private school and do well in my life. My family had nothing. We were dirt poor. The first "private school" I went to was affordable because I supplemented the tuition by working 6 hours a day on the dairy farm they owned. But with the education afforded me, I was able to break the chain of working drudge dead end jobs and I am quite well off with several cars and motorcycles and two houses, going on vacation several times a year. I show my gratitude for the system by paying my fair share of taxes and giving regularly to charities that help others get out of lives of poverty and crime.

BTW - you talk about the superior governing in Red States - but fail to acknowledge the well established fact that the Red States are the biggest welfare queens in the USA. It's the Blue States that end up subsidizing them. Google it. The US Government Bureau Of Statistics and others confirm it. This is not a liberal talking point. It's well known and truly puts lie to the myth of "better politics" in Red States.
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Last edited by Keshav; March 28th, 2018 at 06:51 PM.
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March 28th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #83
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I have 2 cousins who every year drive from Halifax NS to Florida for the winter, they've been doing it the last 11 years and they love it.
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March 28th, 2018, 11:04 AM   #84
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I have 2 cousins who every year drive from Halifax NS to Florida for the winter, they've been doing it the last 11 years and they love it.
I have family up in Saulnierville and NS is truly God's country. But Christ is it boring. Another place where the culinary arts are 60 years behind the times. Again a nice kind of provincial culture. I'm sure Florida must seem pretty exotic for your cousins. I much prefer Mexico. Actually - just got back from Oaxaca two weeks ago.
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March 28th, 2018, 11:48 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
Pov, that's your point of view. If you think funding for day care for single mothers who have to work two jobs because they can't live on minimum wage is "welfare" what can I say? I'm guessing you think funding the arts is also welfare. And California Head Start Head Start a program that promotes the school readiness of children from birth to age five from low-income families by enhancing their cognitive, and social skills - this is "welfare". California National School Breakfast and Lunch Program - which provides food to children of low income families like say the Mexicans who work their guts out farming the fruits and vegetables for $4.00 an hour so you can buy them cheap in Tennesee. Welfare right??? Or is that the cheap produce you buy is in fact subsidized by the government because these people would starve to death without these social programs, while providing you with cheap produce???

Same goes for corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks like at the Walmart that you all benefit from when you go to buy cheap flatscreens and cheap firearms and cheap produce which they make obscene profits on only because Walmart pays slave wages which are kept in place by the "good politics" of your state government. Minimum wage in Tn is fucking $7.25 an hour. Could you live on that? This is government mandated peonage. If that's your idea of good government, you can keep it.

Most billion dollar companies, like Apple never want to pay their fair share of taxes and have no social conscience to speak of. They're for the most part giant spreaders of the affluenza disease with little regard for fellow humans which doesn't make them in my mind in any way admirable. The problem is not the State of California. The problem is kleptocratic greed and a sociopathic lack of human empathy and civil responsibility.

When billion dollar companies are allowed to pay little or no taxes - you too suffer the effects. When companies pay their fair share of the tax burden, your kids get more affordable education, your gas and booze is cheaper due to less taxes and infrastructure is improved and there's more money for local agencies to uphold standards in healthcare facilities, and money to make sure your air and water is clean to breathe and drink (tho not if Trump has any say). It pays for regulatory agencies charged with making sure the pharmaceutical companies don't poison you with untested drugs. Your cost of living would be even lower if billion dollar companies merely paid what they are legally obligated to pay. Affordable colleges means a better educated public with more people in meaningful jobs which provably equates to decreased crime and less anxiety about having to defend your home with an AK 47. I have to say, I am pretty tired of people who call everything non-whites receive as benefits from taxes as "welfare" and everything white folks receive as their "earned return from taxes paid". Everybody pays taxes.

This is not just some utopian fantasy I'm talking about. I'm living proof that this stuff works to change society for the better. I came from immigrant parents and was raised by a single mom who needed to collect welfare for a time until she could get on her feet. The money from the government allowed her to work and put aside enough money for me to go to a good private school and do well in my life. My family had nothing. We were dirt poor. The first "private school" I went to was affordable because I supplemented the tuition by working 6 hours a day on the dairy farm they owned. But with the education afforded me, I was able to break the chain of working drudge dead end jobs and I am quite well off with several cars and motorcycles and two houses, going on vacation several times a year. I show my gratitude for the system by paying my fair share of taxes and giving regularly to charities that help others get out of lives of poverty and crime.
If you are stuck on minimum wage after the age of 20 itís your fault. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers, they are meant to introduce young people to the work force then move on. These idiot politicians who forced 15 dollar an hour minimum wage were told what would happen and it is. Automation , much cheaper and donít require benefits, donít lay out, donít steal and will never ask for a raise. It was the push fast food has been looking for for decades and the politicians with zero foresight gave it them, all for a handful of votes.
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March 28th, 2018, 12:12 PM   #86
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This is hyperbolic click-bait pushed by right-wing rags like Forbes. People always come and go from state to state. Lot's of people are hurting financially after the giant economic downturn in 2008 and and have had to move to places with lower taxes and inadequate public services. My business makes less than half of what I made in 2008 - but that's not the fault of NY State. Some businesses unable to thrive in the internet age - are moving to states with less taxes like Kansas which may be good for their bottom line but the economy in KS is shit and public services are horrendous.

It's the truest paradigm of the real estate business. When a place becomes popular - the rents get raised, and the wealthy move in and the blue collar population move away. And it's not as if California is hurting from a lowered population. Even with "mass exodus" a lot of people bitch and moan that California is too crowded.

Real estate in Florida is cheap because there's no real competition to live there because there's not much employment and it's a cultural black hole where old people go to die.
They are running off business and worse they are running off their tax base by eleminating the middle class, the very people who pay the majority of taxes. I find it funny hat you left NYC for as you call it, lost its appeal. You left because rent and taxes, admit it.
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March 28th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
If you are stuck on minimum wage after the age of 20 itís your fault. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers, they are meant to introduce young people to the work force then move on. These idiot politicians who forced 15 dollar an hour minimum wage were told what would happen and it is. Automation , much cheaper and donít require benefits, donít lay out, donít steal and will never ask for a raise. It was the push fast food has been looking for for decades and the politicians with zero foresight gave it them, all for a handful of votes.
That's just the old Ayn Rand tough-it-out bullshit. Assholes like Paul Ryan love to emulate and quote her, but never mention that Miss Tough Love in fact collected Social Security and Medicare which that hypocritical old bitch for years railed against. If automation could replace people who stock the aisles, change your tires, wait tables and flip the burgers etc. it'd have done so ages ago. And to say that automation is just the de facto alternative to paying a living wage to the less educated is just plain anti-humanity. I don't know about you, but I'm pro-human.

And what about people who get ill and don't have access to health insurance? What about people born with birth defects. Is that "their fault"? If a person is too ill to work, should we what... put them on an ice flow?

The number one problem that leads to people being stuck in shit jobs is education - or rather the lack of it. The USA ranks fucking 14th in the world way behind Hong Kong, Singapore and Poland.

The ultra wealthy "conservatives" constantly undermine the funding for public education so it's mostly only available to the middle class and the wealthy. With no education the poor stay poor. That is how the "system is rigged". And we all end up paying for it as this country gets dumber and dumber.

Lastly I love how you say machines don't steal as if it's a fait accompli that poor people do; especially in light of how rich white Bernie Madoff billionaires are daily being caught stealing from their clients and using insider trading and crazy shit that's been going on at Wells Fargo where thousands of clients lost their homes due to white collar execs who opened trading accounts and took out loans using the clients names and private info without telling them. These are your beloved A-type personality billionaires who are the real economy criminals; the Exxon assholes and the dysfunctional Wall Street greed-heads who tanked the economy in 2008, and the crooks at Apple who have tax havens in Ireland while using Chinese workers in Shanghai who put in 70 hour weeks making $1.50 an hour and never leave the factory, a factory which keeps nets around the outer walls to catch all the ones that try to commit suicide. But you never say a word about these guys. But you pretty much dismiss the working poor as petty crooks and losers who drain the economy by asking for $15.00 an hour.

Last edited by Keshav; March 28th, 2018 at 01:47 PM.
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March 28th, 2018, 02:34 PM   #88
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I think even in Texas it would be hard to live on $15/hr, would that be enough to live with out government assistance?
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March 28th, 2018, 04:38 PM   #89
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They are running off business and worse they are running off their tax base by eleminating the middle class, the very people who pay the majority of taxes. I find it funny hat you left NYC for as you call it, lost its appeal. You left because rent and taxes, admit it.
Pov - if I believed in God - I'd swear to God that you're wrong. Nonetheless you are. My wife and I bought a modest four bedroom Cape Cod style house up in Rockland to have a weekend getaway place. At the time I thought I would live and die on the Lower East Side. But the pleasure of living surrounded by the Ramapo Mountains and the clean air and well water and good neighbors all around became so appealing that we stopped wanting to go "home" to our place in Manhattan. I fenced in an acre of the land so my two dogs could run free without getting eaten by the coyotes, and I couldn't see them being apartment dogs after that. It had nothing to do with taxes or rent as we own the place in Manhattan which we purchased years ago when the area down by Chinatown was not considered a great neighborhood. We'd gradually lost our love of Downtown Manhattan because 98% of the people we used to hang with had moved to Brooklyn, Queens and Upstate NY. The neighborhood that used to be very funky with lots of artists and musicians etc but all the clubs and art spaces had gradually disappeared as super cheap tenement apartments, storefronts and loft spaces that used to go begging rose up to market value. Downtown lost its flavor and just wasn't all that fun anymore. The big problem with neighborhoods like The Lower East Side is that people come and go all the time and the transience allows rents to climb at an unnatural rate. There are still zillions of Chinese, Ukrainian and Latino residents living there because once they get into a cheap place they never move and the rents are stabilized.

Anyhow... we kept the co-op on the Lower East Side as a pied a terre for three years and used it less and less until this month. We're renting it starting April at a nice profit while my wife gets used to the idea of selling it. So no - we absolutely were not driven out by high rent or taxes.

Last edited by Keshav; March 28th, 2018 at 05:36 PM.
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March 28th, 2018, 05:43 PM   #90
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I think even in Texas it would be hard to live on $15/hr, would that be enough to live with out government assistance?
Whatever happened to all the Houston homeowners without flood insurance.
Is FEMA funding their rebuild?
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