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March 25th, 2018, 03:44 AM   #61
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The fuck where you watching?



Do you see the elbow now?

Max himself admitted years later that he had done some questionable thing a during the peak of that rivalry (As has Rossi). I guess that’s not good enough for you.
I saw it at the time and went with the anti-Biaggi narrative, and watched it again after the 3 incidents at Jerez 2005, LS 2008 and Jerez 2011. I didn't watch it again after Sepang 2015 because I remembered it, something I have some facility for doing. Patterns of behaviour my boy.


Rossi has on occasion had the advantage of pulling the Ayrton Senna "let me through or I will crash into you" move with impunity, with the Gibernau Jerez 2005 thing the most flagrant example. I had no horse in that race, and in fact mildly favoured Rossi over Sete at the time, but watching it live was astonished when Rossi basically just rode into Sete, with no hope of making that corner on his trajectory at his speed without using Sete as a berm. I guess he did have a curse to enforce, which I presume made it alright for you.

It obviously took two to tango in that Biaggi incident, but Max's alternative choices were mainly conceding the corner or moving quickly across in front of a large volume of following traffic. As I recall Valentino wasn't best pleased when Toni Elias pulled something resembling the above moves on him. The race Elias won in 2006 when gifted Dani Pedrosa’s SNS tyres perhaps ironically provided the margin by which Valentino lost the title that year.

Last edited by michaelm; March 26th, 2018 at 02:58 AM. Reason: D
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March 25th, 2018, 03:55 AM   #62
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The sport term goat is not a motogp term. It is used in all sports. But motogp is the only time I ever see it over used or so easily given out. A goat is more than a rider who is better than the riders he competed against. Its someone who consumes their entire sport during their time period leaving a bench mark for athletes to attempt to follow. The media is consumed by them. The goats fans love him, everyone else hates him. I've never seen a person label the goat that wasn't so cut throat they would give up their new born child for a win. Rossi epitomize what it means to be a goat. A washed up goat thats milk dried up, but still the only goat we have ever seen in this sport. In my lifetime at least.
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March 25th, 2018, 04:13 AM   #63
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The sport term goat is not a motogp term. It is used in all sports. But motogp is the only time I ever see it over used or so easily given out. A goat is more than a rider who is better than the riders he competed against. Its someone who consumes their entire sport during their time period leaving a bench mark for athletes to attempt to follow. The media is consumed by them. The goats fans love him, everyone else hates him. I've never seen a person label the goat that wasn't so cut throat they would give up their new born child for a win. Rossi epitomize what it means to be a goat. A washed up goat thats milk dried up, but still the only goat we have ever seen in this sport. In my lifetime at least.
Edwin Moses or Usain Bolt are my idea of sporting GOATs.

I, along with Povol I believe, was prepared to acknowledge Rossi as the bike racing GOAT after the 7th premier class title in 2009, ahead of Hailwood and KRSR who were before my time, and Lawson, Rainey and Doohan who I did see. I would still probably place him above Agostini, although Ago's 8th title on the Yamaha after the Japanese factories re-entered the fray was seriously impressive, I guess why Rossi is so keen to emulate him, both for number of premier class title wins and degree of difficulty in winning an 8th title.

After the Ducati years I can't really place him in a tier above the other greats I mentioned above as I have said previously, particularly Hailwood; he is on a tier with those guys though imo, the best of his time which lasted a long time. He is still astonishingly good for a 39 year old, but won his last title at age 31; Doohan won 3 titles after he turned 31, and Agostini was in his 30s when he won the last title on the Yamaha.
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March 25th, 2018, 04:16 AM   #64
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Edwin Moses or Usain Bolt are my idea of sporting GOATs.

I, along with Povol I believe, was prepared to acknowledge Rossi as the bike racing GOAT after the 7th premier class title in 2009, ahead of Hailwood and KRSR who were before my time, and Lawson, Rainey and Doohan who I did see. I would still probably place him above Agostini, although Ago's 8th title on the Yamaha after the Japanese factories re-entered the fray was seriously impressive, I guess why Rossi is so keen to emulate him, both for number of premier class title wins and degree of difficulty in winning an 8th title.

After the Ducati years I can't really place him in a tier above the other greats I mentioned above as I have said previously, particularly Hailwood; he is on a tier with those guys though imo, the best of his time which lasted a long time. He is still astonishingly good for a 39 year old, but won his last title at age 31; Doohan won 3 titles after he turned 31, and Agostini was in his 30s when he won the last title on the Yamaha.
Hailwood - close and lock thread.

Incidentally Mike, what's with all this ball tampering down under?...I thought that went out with the Patriots?
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March 25th, 2018, 04:24 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Edwin Moses or Usain Bolt are my idea of sporting GOATs.

I, along with Povol I believe, was prepared to acknowledge Rossi as the bike racing GOAT after the 7th premier class title in 2009, ahead of Hailwood and KRSR who were before my time, and Lawson, Rainey and Doohan who I did see. I would still probably place him above Agostini, although Ago's 8th title on the Yamaha after the Japanese factories re-entered the fray was seriously impressive, I guess why Rossi is so keen to emulate him, both for number of premier class title wins and degree of difficulty in winning an 8th title.

After the Ducati years I can't really place him in a tier above the other greats I mentioned above as I have said previously, particularly Hailwood; he is on a tier with those guys though imo, the best of his time which lasted a long time. He is still astonishingly good for a 39 year old, but won his last title at age 31; Doohan won 3 titles after he turned 31, and Agostini was in his 30s when he won the last title on the Yamaha.
Usain Bolt, Micheal Jordan, Tom Brady, Pele were like men playing against boys. I don't hold Rossi's later years against him. Sometimes great don't know when to quit. Micheal Jordan for example retired to try baseball only to return at the age of 38. I can't hold their desire to compete in their later years against them. Especially when they still have more talent than most of the grid(team).

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March 25th, 2018, 04:30 AM   #66
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Hailwood - close and lock thread.

Incidentally Mike, what's with all this ball tampering down under?...I thought that went out with the Patriots?
Yes imo Hailwood would have been able to ride that Ducati better, if not to the extent of winning a title on the thing.

With the cricket I think it is what happens when you put people like Smith, Warner and Lehmann who are rather good at cricket but otherwise not very clever in positions of authority and pay them a lot of money. Even before this incident my nephew, a pretty good young fast bowler, and I both thought Paine would make a better captain than Smith or Warner, and he was probably originally in line for this earlier in his career before his injury woes.

They are not the only team to ever indulge in ball tampering, but given the holier than thou attitude somewhat prevalent in Australian sport in general, but particularly in cricket, I don't see that any defence exists for them.

Last edited by michaelm; March 25th, 2018 at 04:39 AM.
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March 25th, 2018, 04:34 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Hailwood - close and lock thread.

Incidentally Mike, what's with all this ball tampering down under?...I thought that went out with the Patriots?
Leave Tom's SNS out of this.
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March 25th, 2018, 04:39 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Usain Bolt, Micheal Jordan, Tom Brady, Pele were like men playing against boys. I don't hold Rossi's later years against him. Sometimes great don't know when to quit. Micheal Jordan for example retired to try baseball only to return at the age of 38. I can't hold their desire to compete in their later years against them. Especially when they still have more talent than most of the grid(team).
Sure, I agree about Pele, Jordan and Brady; I was and am a big Montana fan though.

I don't think Rossi should be marked down for staying on either, but conversely if people want to mark him up for being competitive in his late 30s it is true that 2 of his peers/fellow greats did actually win titles in their mid 30s.
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March 25th, 2018, 04:44 AM   #69
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Sure, I agree about Pele, Jordan and Brady; I was and am a big Montana fan though.

I don't think Rossi should be marked down for staying on either, but conversely if people want to mark him up for being competitive in his late 30s it is true that 2 of his peers/fellow greats did actually win titles in their mid 30s.
Montana is a solid 2 qb for me. Until Tom came around he was the man. I am lucky enough to be a big University of Michigan fan. I watched Tom play in college a few times. He split time every year and was rarely the best qb on the team. But the fire he has is what drives him. Similar stories about Jordan. Have you ever heard people tell stories about trash talking Jordan and what happens next?

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March 25th, 2018, 06:15 AM   #70
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Sure, I agree about Pele, Jordan and Brady; I was and am a big Montana fan though.

I don't think Rossi should be marked down for staying on either, but conversely if people want to mark him up for being competitive in his late 30s it is true that 2 of his peers/fellow greats did actually win titles in their mid 30s.
Very different sports though, these other guys bodies quit on them well before the mind ever went. In motor racing unless there is a serious injury then the wear tear on bodies doesn't effect the top guys like it would in other sports.
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