MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
March 17th, 2018, 05:02 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2007
From: sydney australia

Posts: 10,614
Likes: 2128

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Update: Lin Jarvis also left the door open for at least one factory bike for whoever that takes over Tech 3’s deal in 2019.

If that happens (And Marc VDS is the favorite at the moment), KTM+ Tech 3 are not able to keep Zarco and their project does not progress at the meteoric pace from the first year, Herve Poncharal would have ruined a 20 year relationship for not much upside.
Yamaha have had 20 years to give Tech 3 a factory bike and failed to do so, are pretty much at gunpont with the prospect of having no satellite team now possibly making such a factory bike available, made it clear to Herve that a putative Rossi team would have priority over his team despite the aforementioned last 20 years, yet you contend Tech 3 are the ones who have ruined the relationship, while calling other posters biased ?.

That i word once again.

Herve is also no spring chicken, and I am sure it has been a constant if gallant struggle to keep his team afloat financially, and it is understandable for me anyway that the relative comfort of truckloads of Redbull money is appealing at this stage in his career as a team owner. Both Red Bull and KTM have form for achieving competitive status rapidly in other motorsports ventures as well.
gekko1ro and Theo like this.

Last edited by michaelm; March 17th, 2018 at 06:07 PM.
michaelm is offline  
 
March 17th, 2018, 11:12 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2017
From: Earth

Posts: 1,756
Likes: 713

I Ride: Your mom on most days.
Your problem Mitchell, is that you read to react, not to comprehend. You go off on trigger words and then hastily write a reply. I don’t think you have read anything I have written on this topic so far. I will spoon feed you again.

I LOVE Tech 3. I have been a fan of theirs for long. I am a Herve fan as well. I have made over a dozen posts on how happy I am for them to get full factory support. As the amazing JPSbitch says, “The search tool is your friend”.

So lay off the bias argument.

Herve took a business decision to sign with KTM. That’s his prerogative. However, it was clear that he did so without telling Yamaha anything first. That is also his prerogative, but with a 20 year relationship between them, he could have easily used the KTM Deal as a carrot and forced Yamaha’s hand. And I honestly think he would have won that negotiation because KTM needs Tech 3 more than Tech 3 needs KTM.

It is becoming increasingly clear that Zarco has bigger ambitions than developing the KTM into a race winner over 2-3 years. And while it is only the first race weekend, it does look like KTM is not starting off 2018 where they finished off 2017. Now Yamha goes ahead and says that one factory bike for whoever that takes over Tech 3’s contract is possible. Reading between the lines, that sounds like Yamaha’s Hail Mary pass to retain Zarco (with no guarantee that it will work though) .

Can you imagine Marc VDS- Yamaha with a factory bike and Zarco on board, winning races while Herve has the unglamorous task of helping KTM develop the RC16 into a top 5 machine?

If you think that these things aren’t bothering Herve, you are far too naive.

Fair play to Herve though, Yamaha was arrogant as fuck, took him for granted and he showed them the error of their ways. I am just not sure if the baby has been thrown out with the bath water.
synn is offline  
March 17th, 2018, 11:25 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2007
From: sydney australia

Posts: 10,614
Likes: 2128

You are correct for once, even though I have been able to read 100 pages an hour and remember most of it since I was 8 years old, reading a whole post of schoolboy jibes from you is a bridge too far.

You have repeated my conclusion in your last paragraph in your most recent post in any case. I imagine Herve wants some prospect of selling his team when he retires rather than being left high and dry by the VR46 team simply replacing his team or buying his team at a steep discount in a forced sale.
michaelm is offline  
March 17th, 2018, 11:28 PM   #24
Gaz
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
From: Dubvegas, or thereabouts

Posts: 5,683
Likes: 2074

Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Herve took a business decision to sign with KTM. That’s his prerogative. However, it was clear that he did so without telling Yamaha anything first. That is also his prerogative, but with a 20 year relationship between them, he could have easily used the KTM Deal as a carrot and forced Yamaha’s hand. And I honestly think he would have won that negotiation because KTM needs Tech 3 more than Tech 3 needs KTM.
True but there is also the elephant in the room of Team VR in years ahead as Yamaha have stated that team VR will get Yamaha bikes if they choose so whilst Herve's bargaining position was strong today it would be weaker in a few years when he had to go looking for another brand.

He has likely taken the hit today for what he hopes is a longer term gain but my fears are whether he and KTM will attract the riders to raise the brands results and profile over the next few years or, will Herve be in another of the lull periods he had a few years back.




Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
It is becoming increasingly clear that Zarco has bigger ambitions than developing the KTM into a race winner over 2-3 years. And while it is only the first race weekend, it does look like KTM is not starting off 2018 where they finished off 2017. Now Yamha goes ahead and says that one factory bike for whoever that takes over Tech 3’s contract is possible. Reading between the lines, that sounds like Yamaha’s Hail Mary pass to retain Zarco (with no guarantee that it will work though) .
My opinion only, but Zarco is the hottest property in that paddock short of Marquez himself so he would be a fool to take a risk on the unknown and should head to a known quantity and team.

Stories are of course that it is HRC but with Yamaha now offering the factory bike as you suggest, could it be a factory Yamaha?

Could we see VR go to his own full factory liveried team for 2019/2020 with a full factory spannered bike leaving the official team as Vinales/Zarco?

All guesswork but he has had his team in the past in just such a setting as this then leaves one spot available as well without opening any new spots/grid positions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Can you imagine Marc VDS- Yamaha with a factory bike and Zarco on board, winning races while Herve has the unglamorous task of helping KTM develop the RC16 into a top 5 machine?

If you think that these things aren’t bothering Herve, you are far too naive.
I personally have no doubt that Herve will be questioning himself but also suspect it will be very briefly as he needed to look at the longer term given the dollar investment and Yamaha could not give a long term future, thus he chose the KTM path with is somewhat laden with dollars.

Personally I suspect he has chosen well but it is a 5 year path before he will see reward as whilst his team is a good team, riders went there for the Yamaha so KTM need to step up to maintain the attractiveness of a Tech 3 ride.


Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Fair play to Herve though, Yamaha was arrogant as fuck, took him for granted and he showed them the error of their ways. I am just not sure if the baby has been thrown out with the bath water.
For 2019 I suspect he has cut-off his nose to spite his face, but I suspect that bu 2022 or so he will be feeling better.

All this of course is dependent on him not selling his licence to a prospective buyer as he does possess the grid spots which may be valuable to a team wanting to join.

All hypothetical and pure guesswork mind but I do hope he gets results this year and next, as if there is a team that deserves a win for perseverence it is Tech3
synn likes this.
Gaz is offline  
March 17th, 2018, 11:43 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2017
From: Earth

Posts: 1,756
Likes: 713

I Ride: Your mom on most days.
With Lin Jarvis stating that more than 4 bikes are possible and that a factory bike for private teams is also possible, the fear of VR46 upstaging any existing Yamaha satellite contract holders has been largely mitigated.

As for Zarco, we know that he likes the M1. He will do amazing things on an RCV no sure, but I get the feeling that the talk about “Partnering Marquez” is a play by his management team to get him a factory Yamaha, even if it is not within the Movistar Yamaha constellation.

We will see what happens in a few months, but Yamaha would be fools to let Zarco go. And I can say this without hesitation as a Rossi fan, Yamaha’s best shot at a world championship currently lies with Zarco.

Last edited by synn; March 17th, 2018 at 11:48 PM.
synn is offline  
March 18th, 2018, 12:29 AM   #26
Gaz
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
From: Dubvegas, or thereabouts

Posts: 5,683
Likes: 2074

Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
With Lin Jarvis stating that more than 4 bikes are possible and that a factory bike for private teams is also possible, the fear of VR46 upstaging any existing Yamaha satellite contract holders has been largely mitigated.

As for Zarco, we know that he likes the M1. He will do amazing things on an RCV no sure, but I get the feeling that the talk about “Partnering Marquez” is a play by his management team to get him a factory Yamaha, even if it is not within the Movistar Yamaha constellation.

We will see what happens in a few months, but Yamaha would be fools to let Zarco go. And I can say this without hesitation as a Rossi fan, Yamaha’s best shot at a world championship currently lies with Zarco.


Again, just my opinion but whilst HRC may be a good fit for Zarco if we look at it on a pure bike basis, the real question would be how Marquez would handle a truly driven team-mate.

Now, that is not to criticise Pedrosa but he has been around for a long time and has an established history in the sport but Zarco is trying to create and establish that history and I for one am not sure how Marquez would feel about having that challenge in his own garage so to speak.

My suspicions are that were Zarco to go to HRC then we would again see activity similar to that between VR and JL in the Yamaha shed only with a larger ego at play (Alzamora).
Gaz is offline  
March 18th, 2018, 12:31 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
yamfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2016
From: Uk

Posts: 757
Likes: 378

That factory bike could be a carrot dangling in front of team VR46 and any current team willing to get into bed with them. Such an arrangement would enable them to separate the team and run a factory side for Rossi, whilst Zarco jumps into bed with Maverick.
It’s a well known fact that Valentino doesn’t like other riders in his yard. I’m sure he’d welcome his own private factory setup where he can “plough his own furrow” so to speak, as he did in the Nastro Azzuro days.
That’s a setup I wouldn’t mind seeing on all sides, especially if it keeps Yamaha at the top of the MotoGP tree.
yamfan is offline  
March 18th, 2018, 12:36 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2017
From: Earth

Posts: 1,756
Likes: 713

I Ride: Your mom on most days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Again, just my opinion but whilst HRC may be a good fit for Zarco if we look at it on a pure bike basis, the real question would be how Marquez would handle a truly driven team-mate.

Now, that is not to criticise Pedrosa but he has been around for a long time and has an established history in the sport but Zarco is trying to create and establish that history and I for one am not sure how Marquez would feel about having that challenge in his own garage so to speak.

My suspicions are that were Zarco to go to HRC then we would again see activity similar to that between VR and JL in the Yamaha shed only with a larger ego at play (Alzamora).
I honestly think that MM has matured to the point where he can live with an equally competitive teammate, but I am not so sure about Marquez senior and Alzamora. Especially with another strong character like Puig at play.
synn is offline  
March 18th, 2018, 12:43 AM   #29
Gaz
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
From: Dubvegas, or thereabouts

Posts: 5,683
Likes: 2074

Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
I honestly think that MM has matured to the point where he can live with an equally competitive teammate, but I am not so sure about Marquez senior and Alzamora. Especially with another strong character like Puig at play.


Agreed.

Marc Marquez of today is far more mature than was Marc Marquez of a few years back and I have similar feelings with Alzamora and Marquez Senior, although if Alex makes it to MotoGP we may see less of Marquez Snr with MM and more with AM (nor sure why but he just strikes me as a style of Tennis Parent).

My theory when I heard that Puig was back at Honda was that he was there to reign in the power play of team Marquez (by Team I do not mean Marc personally but the surrounding crew) as if there is one thing that Puig does well it is not take shit from people. The power play in the HRC garage is a sideline story for 2018 and one that may be interesting to watch it play out if we get to see or hear it.
Gaz is offline  
March 18th, 2018, 12:48 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
yamfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2016
From: Uk

Posts: 757
Likes: 378

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Again, just my opinion but whilst HRC may be a good fit for Zarco if we look at it on a pure bike basis, the real question would be how Marquez would handle a truly driven team-mate.



Now, that is not to criticise Pedrosa but he has been around for a long time and has an established history in the sport but Zarco is trying to create and establish that history and I for one am not sure how Marquez would feel about having that challenge in his own garage so to speak.



My suspicions are that were Zarco to go to HRC then we would again see activity similar to that between VR and JL in the Yamaha shed only with a larger ego at play (Alzamora).


Got to agree there Gaz, surely old Alzamora is likely to toe the Spanish party line too.
I’ve also got a feeling that he rather wants to be the one who oversees Marquez’s breaking of all the records, as the lad has shown he’s more than capable and has time and age on his side.
yamfan is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
2019, join, ktm, official, tech3



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Piece Falls Into Place - Marquez Stays With Honda for 2019/2020 Macca MotoGP 46 March 5th, 2018 08:30 AM
Dovi to Tech3 for 2012 Mr Squiggle MotoGP 39 October 15th, 2011 01:44 AM
monster yamaha tech3 AP67 MotoGP 53 March 27th, 2009 04:27 PM
New Tech3 livery unveiled phleg MotoGP 27 February 19th, 2008 01:46 AM
NEW TECH3 YAMAHA LINE UP! xx CURVE xx MotoGP 0 June 20th, 2007 01:50 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.