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February 28th, 2018, 12:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
I see this thrown around so much.

In 2009, Rossi beat Jorge Lorenzo, Andrea Dovizioso, Casey Stoner, Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa for a world championship. Apart from two of those names, one retired and one who passed on, that's pretty much the same cream of the crop Marquez has beaten. Except when they are all several years older.

Make no mistake, I admire Marquez's raw talent and I have mentioned that several times here (Re-stating this for those with tunnel vision), but can we please lay off the hyperbole?

2009 is a different story. I think Rossi won his 2009 title against a high-quality group of competitors.

What I personally reckon, and what gets Rossi fanboys furios (not calling you one of course, but I'm from Italy so I know a lot of em...) is that Rossi's rivals in the first part of his carreer were objectively weaker than the rivals Marquez faced at the same age.

Naming names is useless since we all know who was where and when.

Something worth mentioning about 2009 and also 2010, is what Stoner did. Yes, the 2007 title was epic and so on. But both in 2009 and 2010 Stoner won races (4 in 09 and 3 in 010) with a bike that was shaking and couldn't stay right even on the straight. THAT in my opinion requires more talent than winning 9 titles.

Just my 2 cents
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Last edited by Holypuck; February 28th, 2018 at 12:31 AM.
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February 28th, 2018, 03:43 AM   #12
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Not to mention it was also Lorenzo’s first year on Bridgestones and he’s notorious for needing time to acclimatise to new equipment.
Fair play to Rossi though, you can only beat what’s in front of you.
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February 28th, 2018, 06:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
2009 is a different story. I think Rossi won his 2009 title against a high-quality group of competitors.

What I personally reckon, and what gets Rossi fanboys furios (not calling you one of course, but I'm from Italy so I know a lot of em...) is that Rossi's rivals in the first part of his carreer were objectively weaker than the rivals Marquez faced at the same age.

Naming names is useless since we all know who was where and when.

Something worth mentioning about 2009 and also 2010, is what Stoner did. Yes, the 2007 title was epic and so on. But both in 2009 and 2010 Stoner won races (4 in 09 and 3 in 010) with a bike that was shaking and couldn't stay right even on the straight. THAT in my opinion requires more talent than winning 9 titles.

Just my 2 cents
The reason people get so touchy on here about Rossi is that unfortunately there is a yellow herd of Valiban who believe Rossi turned water into wine and can do no wrong, while also claiming to be impartial. It IS possible to admire Rossi's achievements in GP while also admitting he is past his prime.

You'll find plenty of examples on the internet of people claiming Stoner only won his 2 titles on by far the dominant bike, the same with Marquez (even though that truly isn't the case) and that Lorenzo only won his titles through luck, while blissfully ignoring the times when Rossi had the exact same advantages and arguably more so.

Even in Stoner's hands, the 2007 Ducati was nowhere near as dominant bike as the 2002 RC211V that won all but 2 or three races that season and was so dominant that a satellite rider won his first race on it late in the year. Rossi took advantage of the package offered to him just like Stoner did with the GP7.
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February 28th, 2018, 07:10 AM   #14
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The GP7 didn't want to turn.
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February 28th, 2018, 07:21 AM   #15
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The reason people get so touchy on here about Rossi is that unfortunately there is a yellow herd of Valiban who believe Rossi turned water into wine and can do no wrong, while also claiming to be impartial. It IS possible to admire Rossi's achievements in GP while also admitting he is past his prime.

You'll find plenty of examples on the internet of people claiming Stoner only won his 2 titles on by far the dominant bike, the same with Marquez (even though that truly isn't the case) and that Lorenzo only won his titles through luck, while blissfully ignoring the times when Rossi had the exact same advantages and arguably more so.

Even in Stoner's hands, the 2007 Ducati was nowhere near as dominant bike as the 2002 RC211V that won all but 2 or three races that season and was so dominant that a satellite rider won his first race on it late in the year. Rossi took advantage of the package offered to him just like Stoner did with the GP7.


Exactly. I really wouldn't have a problem with Rossi fans if most of them wouldn't appear to care more about bashing all the rivals Rossi ever had rather than supporting their hero.
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February 28th, 2018, 07:42 AM   #16
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How credible is the source, but according to this report, Marquez demanded Pedro stay as his teammate through 2020 and Honda was wanting to bring up Nakagami.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...ews-gossip/amp
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February 28th, 2018, 07:57 AM   #17
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The GP7 didn't want to turn.
I know that, and you know that. Hell Loris Capirossi, Marco Melandri and Casey Stoner know that. But what would they know compared to the Valeban? They still assert that a trained chimp could have won on that bike, yet ironically when Rossi stepped on a later iteration of it, suddenly it became a crap pot.

Quote:
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Exactly. I really wouldn't have a problem with Rossi fans if most of them wouldn't appear to care more about bashing all the rivals Rossi ever had rather than supporting their hero.
Indeed. It's not a sin to praise another rider. Personally my respect for Rossi waned after reading his biography, and what was left leaped out of the window after Sepang 2015.
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February 28th, 2018, 08:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post

Something worth mentioning about 2009 and also 2010, is what Stoner did. Yes, the 2007 title was epic and so on. But both in 2009 and 2010 Stoner won races (4 in 09 and 3 in 010) with a bike that was shaking and couldn't stay right even on the straight. THAT in my opinion requires more talent than winning 9 titles.

Just my 2 cents
Stoner reckons the 2009 Desmosedici was the best one (i.e. even better than the GP17 and GP18).
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February 28th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
How credible is the source, but according to this report, Marquez demanded Pedro stay as his teammate through 2020 and Honda was wanting to bring up Nakagami.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...ews-gossip/amp

There is also this bit

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/mo...GP-news-gossip
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February 28th, 2018, 02:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holypuck View Post
Exactly. I really wouldn't have a problem with Rossi fans if most of them wouldn't appear to care more about bashing all the rivals Rossi ever had rather than supporting their hero.
I think this self-same logic could be applied to folk that don't have Mr Rossi in their super favourite club. If they perhaps spent more time enjoying the achievements of the riders they do like and less time focusing on everything about Mr Rossi and his fans they dislike the world might just be a better place...

Alas, this big blue globe that we are all stuck on doesn't work like that and the world of internet forums and social media definitely doesn't fucking work like that
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