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February 23rd, 2018, 12:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
"Marc felt threatened by me"

Elaborating on exactly why he felt Honda ultimately passed up his services, Stoner said he believed Marc Marquez vetoed any such move.

"At Honda I was only an occasional tester, I never had any other role," said the Australian. "To tell the truth, I don't think they took advantage of my potential. I think Marquez and his entourage felt threatened by me.

"I was at Honda to try new things that the race riders could use, so I was there to help Marc. But they have to do as the number one rider says."

Wow he did say it. He did use the word believed, meaning lacking evidence. I guess if it was true honda wouldn't tell us anyway. But good on you for providing the link.
Like you I hadn't seen this interview, which seems to be years (EDIT a year) after the events. I still go with what you have argued, there were good reasons for Honda not to want him to wildcard, particularly if he was fast enough to contest MM and not just pick up some high midfield points for the manufacturers championship.

Not everything Stoner says he believes to be true is necessarily true, he was often quite confused in interviews. Even from what he says in this interview he deduced rather than was told MM had vetoed him, and there was nothing to stop him saying directly that MM had vetoed him if he knew this for a fact. If MM didn't want him to interfere in his championship bid which was still live that would, just as for Honda, be legitimate anyway. If he had vetoed him from contesting PI 2013 (EDIT I meant 2014 when the championship had already been decided) that would be a different matter.

Last edited by michaelm; February 23rd, 2018 at 01:11 PM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 12:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Not everything Stoner says he believes to be true is necessarily true, he was often quite confused in interviews. Even from what he says in this interview he deduced rather than was told MM had vetoed him, and there was nothing to stop him saying directly that MM had vetoed him if he knew this for a fact. If MM didn't want him to interfere in his championship bid which was still live that would, just as for Honda, be legitimate anyway. If he had vetoed him from contesting PI 2013 that would be a different matter.
Totally agree Mike and that is for all riders and/or athletes when they relay a story -- it is with their own taint of belief mixed in.

That does not mean that the rider/athlete is a liar but simply that what they believe is the truth, may well not be the truth as they may not be privy to all that has gone on.

My expectation of that interview is that the words were put out there by a journalist and he ran with it (much like the famed Laguna brake check question where CS responded 'they are your words')
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February 23rd, 2018, 12:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Like you I hadn't seen this interview, which seems to be years after the events. I still go with what you have argued, there were good reasons for Honda not to want him to wildcard, particularly if he was fast enough to contest MM and not just pick up some high midfield points for the manufacturers championship.

Not everything Stoner says he believes to be true is necessarily true, he was often quite confused in interviews. Even from what he says in this interview he deduced rather than was told MM had vetoed him, and there was nothing to stop him saying directly that MM had vetoed him if he knew this for a fact. If MM didn't want him to interfere in his championship bid which was still live that would, just as for Honda, be legitimate anyway. If he had vetoed him from contesting PI 2013 that would be a different matter.
Well said.
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:09 PM   #34
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Puig, no matter what people think of him has done some brilliant things in terms of development of riders and opening of doors that have gotten some into the big leagues, yet what we recall is the svengali dickhead that followed Pedrosa everywhere.

There is a reason why HRC have bought him in and we will likely never know the full or true reason, but I do wonder if it has a lot of 'minimising' Alzamora and Marquez senior's power with in the team atmosphere. Basically bring in a string personality who simply can manage and can be as big an asshole, to try to keep the other assholes in check.

None of this is on Marquez junior I may add
He has done a very good job for "his" riders. Accept the time he put alternative fact a Dani's pit board in germany. But to be the other rider in the pit is another story. Whats wrong with Marquez senior? I haven't heard of him upsetting the team. If you have a great rider like Marc why make moves that could potential upset him for a perennial underachiever? There is no doubt Puig will favor DP.




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Totally IMO only here but HRC were somewhat damned if they did, and damned if they did not.

If they raced with CS they had a rider who by his own admission could not have finished higher than 5th (all being equal) due to his lack of race fitness and who really only wanted to ride as it was a circuit he had not ridden previously. However, that same rider may well have been able to get a few points from your title rivals (individual, team and manufacturer) so you had to weigh up priorities but above all, team harmony - why place pressure on your remaining rider, unnecessary pressure.

On the other, you put a rider who you know will not challenge the top teams or riders but who knows the bike intimately and thus us highly unlikely to need time to adjust or get to speed. You have the obligation to be there but that obligation does not mean you need to be at the top plus, as a fill in rider that person will get some level of coverage due to why they are there.

Yes, CS would have provided more coverage as he is a higher profile but still, do you want the coverage taken from your main man?

Totally my view only but the vast majority of people wanted CS because it was CS and they wanted to see how he would go but for mine, he was the one with all to lose as if he returned and did very well (ie.podium) then pressure would come from everywhere about a return and if he finished low in the points or outside then pressure would be applied about how he has lost it, something no rider wants to confront.
Honda has nothing to gain by letting him race. Honda cares about one thing, winning. They want titles and a midget robot. Nothing else matters to them. They will outspend the other manufacturers just because they can. They will never have a problem getting the rider they want and they don't need a one off dog and pony show. Look how easy it was for yamaha to take Rossi back, but honda they will never take him back. They care nothing about the financial circus he brings to town. They want titles.

Last edited by MdubSTYLIE; February 23rd, 2018 at 01:11 PM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:37 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
He has done a very good job for "his" riders. Accept the time he put alternative fact a Dani's pit board in germany. But to be the other rider in the pit is another story. Whats wrong with Marquez senior? I haven't heard of him upsetting the team. If you have a great rider like Marc why make moves that could potential upset him for a perennial underachiever? There is no doubt Puig will favor DP.
Absolutely Puig has done right by his riders, as is/was his job so great work for him and for those that he has helped get to the main game (not all have a surname of Pedrosa).

As for Saschenring, well that was the start of the downfall ....... arrogance showed through and Dani paid the price

With MM snr, there have been occasional rumblings about his being a 'typical parent of a high performing child'. Certainly not to the level of many tennis parents but the occasional rumbling as he knows his son holds the power/sway so he will push occasionally (storesi)






Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Honda has nothing to gain by letting him race. Honda cares about one thing, winning. They want titles and a midget robot. Nothing else matters to them. They will outspend the other manufacturers just because they can. They will never have a problem getting the rider they want and they don't need a one off dog and pony show. Look how easy it was for yamaha to take Rossi back, but honda they will never take him back. They care nothing about the financial circus he brings to town. They want titles.

I actually think that in many ways HRC had a lot to gain by letting him race (publicity etc) but the longer term risks were way to high (why upset MM/team for a bit part player like CS who by his own admission, wanted to race the circuit).

I also strongly feel that HRC were impacted in their decision by the fact that there were to be 2 or 3 races and, well lets be honest, would CS have wanted to do all ...............

I sit on the fence of whether the decision was right/wrong as I have a toe on the water on each side, but were I HRC I would have made the same decision
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
He has done a very good job for "his" riders. Accept the time he put alternative fact a Dani's pit board in germany. But to be the other rider in the pit is another story. Whats wrong with Marquez senior? I haven't heard of him upsetting the team. If you have a great rider like Marc why make moves that could potential upset him for a perennial underachiever? There is no doubt Puig will favor DP.
It is intriguing to speculate why Honda have gone for Puig, who doesn't really have any record as a team manager in gp bike racing, but has rather been a manager of riders and someone who identified and developed talent.

It is hard for me to see any scenario in which Pedrosa would out-ride MM over the course of a whole season (rather than being untouchable by MM or anyone else on the odd week-end as he has been in most of his seasons in the premier class, including against peak Rossi, peak Lorenzo, peak Stoner on the same bike or anyone else) so I don't think Puig could contrive Dani beating MM to a title even if he wanted to do so. I find it hard to think of anyone who would suit MM better than Pedrosa as a team-mate actually.


I think it is more likely MM and/or his entourage were unhappy with the previous management. Honda are also famously pragmatic with their riders as you say, and will doubtless want a plan B if MM ever does leave, and might see Puig as being the man to identify and develop their next great rider, particularly if MM is showing signs of not necessarily wanting to be a career HRC man. Puig also reputedly has good relations with Dorna/Carmelo (?didn't he have some role at Dorna in the past), and the Repsol/Spanish thing may also come into it.

I think it is a risky move myself, with the Sachsenring incident you mentioned one example of Puig's faults, and his possible encouragement for Dani to race Nicky Hayden as he did in a certain race in 2006 perhaps another.

Last edited by michaelm; February 23rd, 2018 at 01:49 PM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Absolutely Puig has done right by his riders, as is/was his job so great work for him and for those that he has helped get to the main game (not all have a surname of Pedrosa).

As for Saschenring, well that was the start of the downfall ....... arrogance showed through and Dani paid the price

With MM snr, there have been occasional rumblings about his being a 'typical parent of a high performing child'. Certainly not to the level of many tennis parents but the occasional rumbling as he knows his son holds the power/sway so he will push occasionally (storesi)
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
It is intriguing to speculate why Honda have gone for Puig, who doesn't really have any record as a team manager in gp bike racing, but has rather been a manager of riders and someone who identified and developed talent.

It is hard for me to see any scenario in which Pedrosa would out-ride MM over the course of a whole season (rather than being untouchable by MM or anyone else on the odd week-end as he has been in most of his seasons in the premier class, including against peak Rossi, peak Lorenzo, peak Stoner on the same bike or anyone else) so I don't think Puig could contrive Dani beating MM to a title even if he wanted to do so. I find it hard to think of anyone who would suit MM better than Pedrosa as a team-mate actually.


I think it is more likely MM and/or his entourage were unhappy with the previous management. Honda are also famously pragmatic with their riders as you say, and will doubtless want a plan B if MM ever does leave, and might see Puig as being the man to identify and develop their next great rider, particularly if MM is showing signs of not necessarily wanting to be a career HRC man. Puig also reputedly has good relations with Dorna/Carmelo (?didn't he have some role at Dorna in the past), and the Repsol/Spanish thing may also come into it.

I think it is a risky move myself, with the Sachsenring incident you mentioned one example of Puig's faults, and his possible encouragement for Dani to race Nicky Hayden as he did in a certain race in 2006 perhaps another.
It will be interesting to see what Puigs contribution to the team will be. But his track record worries me. Very similar to the pro and cons of letting Stoner wildcard. I don't see Puig worth the risk unless there is something we don't know.

Does Puig manage any of the younger stars?
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February 23rd, 2018, 02:04 PM   #38
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Will need to do some checks Dub but Puig was and may well still be involved in the Red Bull rookies cup and associated academy (all from memory) as that was how he identified the likes of Pedrosa, Stoner etc.

But no doubt we do not know the full story at all and, as with all things, we never will as whilst one side may speak eventually that will be but one side.


Edit to add:
While we focus on why Puig is now with HRC, for me, of interest is the story behind Suppo going ............. there just seems a bit of intrigue and backdoor deals

Last edited by Gaz; February 23rd, 2018 at 02:12 PM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 02:22 PM   #39
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MotoGP?

Good for Herve, he beat Yamaha yo the punch . He has an exciting new deal that will be announced soon, says he got the one thing he has been seeking since he joined the circus. Any speculation on what that might be.
3 little letters KTM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 03:21 PM   #40
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Edit to add:
While we focus on why Puig is now with HRC, for me, of interest is the story behind Suppo going ............. there just seems a bit of intrigue and backdoor deals
Maybe he will turn up at MM 's next team.

It seems strange to dispense with Nakomoto and Suppo after 4 from 5 title wins as I said at the time of the announcement. I can think of 3 explanations, MM/his entourage were unhappy with them, MM is going to leave and Honda blames them particularly after they didn't manage to retain Stoner either, or perhaps Nakomoto or both actually wanted to retire.
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