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February 23rd, 2018, 04:52 AM   #21
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I don't think there is any evidence it was MM who vetoed it. Stoner certainly wanted to replace Pedrosa, and HRC said no thanks which I believe was widely reported.

It may not even have been Alzamora as was mooted at the time. Honda were trying to talk MM into not throwing the bike down the road if he was not capable of completely dominating a race as he had in most races in 2014, and having Stoner out there to race against as well, if Stoner was fast enough, would hardly have been conducive to that aim. If Stoner wasn't fast enough then there probably wasn't much point in him rather than another test rider or whomever replacing Dani either.
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February 23rd, 2018, 04:56 AM   #22
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I don't think there is any evidence it was MM who vetoed it. Stoner certainly wanted to replace Pedrosa, and HRC said no thanks which I believe was widely reported.

It may not even have been Alzamora as was mooted at the time. Honda were trying to talk MM into not throwing the bike down the road if he was not capable of completely dominating a race as he had in most races in 2014, and having Stoner out there to race against as well, if Stoner was fast enough, would hardly have been conducive to that aim. If Stoner wasn't fast enough then there probably wasn't much point in him rather than another test rider or whomever replacing Dani either.
I've always stood by Honda not allowing Stoner to wild card if honda has riders in the chanpionship. Sure Austin is early but looking back and having a wildcard rider steal points would be a dumb way to lose a championship. Ducati has nothing to lose so they don't care. Why do you think Yamaha always replaces injured riders with test rider and parade lappers?
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February 23rd, 2018, 05:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
I've always stood by Honda not allowing Stoner to wild card if honda has riders in the chanpionship. Sure Austin is early but looking back and having a wildcard rider steal points would be a dumb way to lose a championship. Ducati has nothing to lose so they don't care. Why do you think Yamaha always replaces injured riders with test rider and parade lappers?
I agree with that as well, although the risk even for me was more that MM would be even less inclined to ride a measured race rather than finish behind Stoner.

Stoner had retired and rejected what was apparently their best ever offer, MM was their championship contender, past, present and future, why would Honda ever be looking to please such a whim of Stoner’s anyway?.

Last edited by michaelm; February 23rd, 2018 at 05:27 AM.
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February 23rd, 2018, 05:28 AM   #24
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I agree with that as well, although the risk even for me was more that MM would be even less inclined to ride a measured race rather than finish behind Stoner.

Stoner had retired and rejected what was apparently their best ever offer, MM was their future, why would Honda ever be looking to please such a whim of Stonerís anyway?.
Right. Honda had nothing to gain by letting Stoner wildcard. The only scenario which it would have made sense to let him wildcard is after MM sealed up a championship. Thats the only way you'd get to watch the best of them both. The only way we'd get the potential battle we wanted.
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February 23rd, 2018, 05:41 AM   #25
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Right. Honda had nothing to gain by letting Stoner wildcard. The only scenario which it would have made sense to let him wildcard is after MM sealed up a championship. Thats the only way you'd get to watch the best of them both. The only way we'd get the potential battle we wanted.
I did see it as a compliment that there was apparently some concern he might be fast enough for it to matter.
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February 23rd, 2018, 05:55 AM   #26
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I did see it as a compliment that there was apparently some concern he might be fast enough for it to matter.
I would hope thats how they explained it to him, "Look we'd love for you to wildcard, but we are afraid you might beat Marc."

I can only imagine his response was something like, "That the plan m8."
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February 23rd, 2018, 12:00 PM   #27
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The question in this intrigue for me is this:
How much more disadvantaged will Zarco be this year as a result of Herve jumping ship?
He is already not getting the best equipment and with this move I suspect he will get even less in the way of help.
Even though Herve and him reportedly get along great, for Tech 3 it really doesnít matter if they donít win this year. For Zarco it has to mean a lot more.
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February 23rd, 2018, 12:34 PM   #28
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:00 PM   #29
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"Marc felt threatened by me"

Elaborating on exactly why he felt Honda ultimately passed up his services, Stoner said he believed Marc Marquez vetoed any such move.

"At Honda I was only an occasional tester, I never had any other role," said the Australian. "To tell the truth, I don't think they took advantage of my potential. I think Marquez and his entourage felt threatened by me.

"I was at Honda to try new things that the race riders could use, so I was there to help Marc. But they have to do as the number one rider says."

Wow he did say it. He did use the word believed, meaning lacking evidence. I guess if it was true honda wouldn't tell us anyway. But good on you for providing the link.
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February 23rd, 2018, 01:39 PM   #30
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I think it could happen. This could be his "ducati" moment. Why do all the top riders end up going there? For money? To prove something? Well ktm has that plus they have fuck tons of money. I also think the move to bring Puig to honda could be telling of hondas future plans. Thats not a move to help Marc thats for sure.
Puig, no matter what people think of him has done some brilliant things in terms of development of riders and opening of doors that have gotten some into the big leagues, yet what we recall is the svengali dickhead that followed Pedrosa everywhere.

There is a reason why HRC have bought him in and we will likely never know the full or true reason, but I do wonder if it has a lot of 'minimising' Alzamora and Marquez senior's power with in the team atmosphere. Basically bring in a string personality who simply can manage and can be as big an asshole, to try to keep the other assholes in check.

None of this is on Marquez junior I may add

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I don't think there is any evidence it was MM who vetoed it. Stoner certainly wanted to replace Pedrosa, and HRC said no thanks which I believe was widely reported.

It may not even have been Alzamora as was mooted at the time. Honda were trying to talk MM into not throwing the bike down the road if he was not capable of completely dominating a race as he had in most races in 2014, and having Stoner out there to race against as well, if Stoner was fast enough, would hardly have been conducive to that aim. If Stoner wasn't fast enough then there probably wasn't much point in him rather than another test rider or whomever replacing Dani either.
I do recall an article indicating that Alzamora did not want CS to ride but cannot find it anywhere on a quick search.

MM was labelled and included as it was MM who had already been critical of CS regards the engine characteristics of that machine so many included MM as not wanting CS to ride (remembering that by years end, MM was complaining of the same engine characteristics that CS identified). MM was attached purely because he was MM and had far more to lose, plus people needed someone to blame and Mm is a bigger name or easier target than Alzamora, particularly for us Aussies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
I've always stood by Honda not allowing Stoner to wild card if honda has riders in the chanpionship. Sure Austin is early but looking back and having a wildcard rider steal points would be a dumb way to lose a championship. Ducati has nothing to lose so they don't care. Why do you think Yamaha always replaces injured riders with test rider and parade lappers?
Totally IMO only here but HRC were somewhat damned if they did, and damned if they did not.

If they raced with CS they had a rider who by his own admission could not have finished higher than 5th (all being equal) due to his lack of race fitness and who really only wanted to ride as it was a circuit he had not ridden previously. However, that same rider may well have been able to get a few points from your title rivals (individual, team and manufacturer) so you had to weigh up priorities but above all, team harmony - why place pressure on your remaining rider, unnecessary pressure.

On the other, you put a rider who you know will not challenge the top teams or riders but who knows the bike intimately and thus us highly unlikely to need time to adjust or get to speed. You have the obligation to be there but that obligation does not mean you need to be at the top plus, as a fill in rider that person will get some level of coverage due to why they are there.

Yes, CS would have provided more coverage as he is a higher profile but still, do you want the coverage taken from your main man?

Totally my view only but the vast majority of people wanted CS because it was CS and they wanted to see how he would go but for mine, he was the one with all to lose as if he returned and did very well (ie.podium) then pressure would come from everywhere about a return and if he finished low in the points or outside then pressure would be applied about how he has lost it, something no rider wants to confront.
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