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February 20th, 2018, 05:27 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
It’s kinda pathetic how you need to chip in with a Rossi line as some sort of “Gotcha”.
If Rossi gets beaten by Vinales... he gets beaten by Vinales. They are teammates, not aiming for the same seat like Miller and J. Lo potentially.

Try to not take things so personally. These are people paid to race. Not your family.

As for Lorenzo, switching between last years and this years bikes and slumping in the back is not “not aiming for a fast time”, it’s the stars not aligning in that perfect order for Sir Jorge of Lorenzoland to be fast in that narrow window he is capable of performing in.
Not really, coming from the person who defends Rossi to the death and bashes Lorenzo whenever he can, but I'm the one who takes it personally. This is a discussion forum, and everytime someone hits you with a rebuttal, you simply label them 'a hater, pathetic or taking things personally', you're like an open book.

You keep intimating that if Miller gives Lorenzo a hard time this year he's out. While blissfully ignoring (Edit, you apprach the subject in a later post) the exact same scenario playing out with Rossi and Zarco at Yamaha. That isn't any attempt at a 'Gotcha", simply highlighting the basic fact that if Lorenzo is under threat from a satellite rider of the same brand, then Rossi is most certainly too. Given that Zarco has had arguably the most impressive rookie season from a satellite rider since Casey Stoner in 2006, and as it stand looks comfortably faster than the factory riders.

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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
MV beat Rossi by 22 points last year, and Rossi missed a race (Misano, probably his best track) due to a leg break. They were closely matched, actually.
He broke his leg of his own accord, and not even in a race. So it absolutely cannot be used as an excuse. He missed one race where, given the conditions, it is unlikely he'd have scored significant points anyway.

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Originally Posted by synn View Post
Petrucci still has an open deal until June or so. Or Miller, if he pulls a Zarco.
Given that Ducati have said they want both factory riders signed by then, along with the fact they have said they want to retain Lorenzo & Dovi AND they have told Petrucci he better look for another factory, I'm not quite sure what other evidence you need to contradict your pipedream of Lorenzo getting replaced by Ducati.

While I believe Miler to be a talent, you'll excuse my getting excited about a rider who has won a handful of Moto3 races and 1 mixed wet/dry (albeit thoroughly deserved) MotoGP race. Another thing to consider is that Redding was fast on the Pramac Ducati in his first winter tests after leaving VDS Honda, finishing 3rd in the Jerez tests and tweeting all day long about how he loved the Ducati. Turned out when it came to show time, he was rather underwhelming. I'm not saying Miller will be the same, but how many preseason champions testing champions have we seen over the years.

Quote:
Speaking of Zarco, what WOULD be interesting for Yamaha is if he starts beating Rossi and Vinales. Which is a real possibility if Movistar Yamaha doesn’t sort out the electronics in time. The only options for them at that point is either offer him a factory seat if Rossi retires or offer Tech3 one factory bike like Honda and Ducati are doing (Which they should have done already, I strongly feel that the reason Honda and Ducati have improved so much is the extra amount of data and feedback they are getting from a third rider on a factory bike).

If I were Lin Jarvis, I would move heaven and earth to keep Zarco on.
I note the change in your tone there. With Yamaha, they should "Offer a factory seat to Zarco if Rossi retires" but with Ducati, they should fire Lorenzo and replace him with Miller, or Petrucci.

If the scenario above does play out, Vinales is young and has time on his hands for Yamaha to sort the issues. Rossi doesn't, so if Yamaha doesn't take the bull by the horns and sign Zarco, making Rossi a test rider/brand ambassador, then they are losing out on a huge opportunity. Of course they won't do that because it has been made clear by Yamaha that there is an open seat on the factory team for Rossi as long as he wants it, no matter what his performances are like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Miller has been really impressive so far on the Duke. I'm very curious to see how he goes. He was awesome in Moto3, and finally started showing his ability near the end of his tenure on the Honda last year.
True, but as I said above, so was Redding when he first tested it. I, like you, and curious to see if he can take this form into the season.

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Originally Posted by yamfan View Post
According to the “unbiased” lot on krops forum, Lorenzo is getting replaced, Maverick is totally lost.
Rossi however is absolutely fine, doesn’t need to attempt a fast time as he only needs race simulations because the bike suits him.
He’s not slow, he’s foxing to lull the others into false security, before he comes out flying and blows everyone away as he takes his deserved holy grail title
I don't even know why you go there anymore, anyone who speaks out against the Rossi cult is blocked or banned.
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February 20th, 2018, 07:44 PM   #102
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Jesus tap dancing Christ. You didn’t have to type a goddamn wall of text. A simple “waaaaaaaahhhhh” would have sufficed.

No one brought Rossi up until you did, I personally have been doing my best to be neutral in this thread and is actually addressing the possibility of Zarco outperforming Rossi and Vinales but you lots of course read what you want to read.

I get it that you were probably dropped on your head as a baby, but you don’t need to constantly remind us of the same.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:09 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by #22 View Post
He broke his leg of his own accord, and not even in a race. So it absolutely cannot be used as an excuse. He missed one race where, given the conditions, it is unlikely he'd have scored significant points anyway.
The fact that he hurt his leg in an enduro session with his younger lads, rather than a race, bolsters the argument that he was closely matched during the MotoGP championship with his teammate. No-one reasonably can measure the on-track performance of two competitors based on freak training accidents.

Even after missing a race, and even after riding affected with a leg break, VR finished within 22 points of MV. That's not getting "solidly" beaten.

Getting "solidly" beaten is what MM did to DP, or what AD did to JL in 2017.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:17 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Jesus tap dancing Christ. You didn’t have to type a goddamn wall of text. A simple “waaaaaaaahhhhh” would have sufficed.

No one brought Rossi up until you did, I personally have been doing my best to be neutral in this thread and is actually addressing the possibility of Zarco outperforming Rossi and Vinales but you lots of course read what you want to read.

I get it that you were probably dropped on your head as a baby, but you don’t need to constantly remind us of the same.
FWIW I think you have made a valuable contribution to the discussion on the thread.

As I said though, no one had required you to like Lorenzo or refrain from potshots at him, and no-one had complained about you doing so until you complained about someone's attitude to Rossi (again) which I believe is what irritated 22.

Last edited by michaelm; February 21st, 2018 at 12:13 AM.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:43 PM   #105
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Here’s what i think about Lorenzo.
Ducati paid big bucks to sign him for one reason only. To win a world championship.

I’d be surprised if he beats his teammate this year.

Lorenzo wanted Rossi money and Rossi fame. But he is not Rossi. He is not a likable face you can put on posters and sell a 100 million motorcycles in south east Asia. He is not Marquez either, able to ride a broomstick to a world championship. So it’s “shit or get off the pot “ time for him this year.

Calling it as I see it. Couldn’t care less if I made #22, 23, 24 or whoever cry.

Last edited by synn; February 20th, 2018 at 08:47 PM.
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February 20th, 2018, 09:03 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synn View Post
Here’s what i think about Lorenzo.
Ducati paid big bucks to sign him for one reason only. To win a world championship.

I’d be surprised if he beats his teammate this year.

Lorenzo wanted Rossi money and Rossi fame. But he is not Rossi. He is not a likable face you can put on posters and sell a 100 million motorcycles in south east Asia. He is not Marquez either, able to ride a broomstick to a world championship. So it’s “shit or get off the pot “ time for him this year.

Calling it as I see it. Couldn’t care less if I made #22, 23, 24 or whoever cry.
I don't necessarily disagree, and Lorenzo is not all that popular on here these days even with me after the end of last season, and I have been a major fan. Most also saw the Ducati move as a bad one for him from the get go, when he was more popuiar with the general forum membership, given his bike and tyre requirements seeming to be fairly particular.

Most things apply to disparaging him that you complain of in regard to Rossi being disparaged however, he has won 5 titles, 60 (65 actually) races or whatever, even moving to Ducati looks like being an error in judgement for both of them, etc, etc. Rossi having a large fan base and being treated differently because of it is exactly that with which some of we grizzled fans on here take issue.

Last edited by michaelm; February 20th, 2018 at 10:06 PM.
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February 20th, 2018, 11:17 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I'm not sure about that. If you were Ducati, who would you replace JL with?


If I were Ducati I would do exactly what Ducati is rumored to be doing: trying to work on a B-plan to put into effect in case JL does not perform this year. And Miller is an interesting option. Sure he's still got everything to prove, but I reckon he's got talent.
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February 21st, 2018, 12:10 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I don't necessarily disagree, and Lorenzo is not all that popular on here these days even with me after the end of last season, and I have been a major fan. Most also saw the Ducati move as a bad one for him from the get go, when he was more popuiar with the general forum membership, given his bike and tyre requirements seeming to be fairly particular.

Most things apply to disparaging him that you complain of in regard to Rossi being disparaged however, he has won 5 titles, 60 (65 actually) races or whatever, even moving to Ducati looks like being an error in judgement for both of them, etc, etc. Rossi having a large fan base and being treated differently because of it is exactly that with which some of we grizzled fans on here take issue.
The thing is, as much as the purists want rider selection to only be about who can ride the fastest, it isn't. Because neither DORNA nor the teams are in this for charity. End of the day, it's about who can win them championships AND make them money. If they can't win them championships, then they better make them money. This is why riders like Yonny Hernandez (Only rider from an entire continent) or Xavier Simeon or even Hafiz Syahirin make it to the paddock.

Everyone and their grandma knows that the relationship between Rossi and Yamaha now is more about financial sense than the championship. He is not the best rider in the paddock anymore, but he can still mix it up at the top, get a few podiums and even a few wins. Their championship hopes are resting on Vinales (That they have colossally cocked up the development is another story). So they are happy for Rossi to do his thing AND make them a lot of money in the process. This is why (Unfortunately for some, depending on their perspective) Rossi and Yamaha have their fates intertwined for the rest of his racing career and afterwards as well.

Personally, I would have liked to see him finish off his career at KTM or Aprilia, helping shape their MotoGP projects with his wealth of experience, but that didn't and will not happen.

So it's really not about the size of his Fanclub, but rather about financial sense. Yamaha will gladly keep paying him $10 million per year for as long as he is competitive and can make them ten times that. That's more than what you can make with a moderate risk stock investment! And Rossi will continue racing as long as he feels he is competitive enough to be in the top third of the grid, at least. Is that unfair to Zarco? It sure is, which is why I really hope they give Tech 3 a factory spec bike next year and make him stay. From all accounts, Zarco loves it in Tech 3, gets along quite well with Guy Coulon and doesn't really care if he is in a factory team, the only piece missing is a factory spec bike.

What Lorenzo DOESN'T have going for him is the money making factor. From all accounts, he is not a well liked person, in the paddock or outside. He does not have the charisma to be the face of Ducati's advertising campaigns. My personal opinion of Stoner aside, Ducati will sell more bikes, T shirts and keychains slapping his face on their ads than Lorenzo's. And that is why Lorenzo's situation IS different from Rossi's. He HAS to perform or he's done.

When Ducati signed him and gave him a humungous paycheck, it was their hail Mary pass. They thought that he was the only thing that could get them a world championship and that Dovi will play the role of a taller Dani Pedrosa. They did not expect Dovi to step up like he did.

In 2018, the situation is very different. Ducati has a potential world champion in Dovi. They would be happy to have two potential world champions in the team, but they don't need a $10 million per year pedrosa (Which is what Lorenzo will be, if he doesn't perform).

If that happens, I can guarantee that Ducati Corse will be thinking hard about either Petrucci (Who can play the role of the supporting rider who gets a few podiums to perfection for a lot less money) or Miller (Young rider who you can build the future of the team around on).


Again, just calling it as I see it. There's no personal bias in here.

Last edited by synn; February 21st, 2018 at 12:21 AM.
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February 21st, 2018, 12:41 AM   #109
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I and I suspect most others understand all that, but don’t have to like it, just as you don’t have to like Stoner, Lorenzo or whomever.

For most of the last decade, like another of your bête noirs in Povol my issue was with an element of his fan base, not Rossi himself. The events of late season 2015 resulted in massively unfair treatment of 2 other great riders imo, pretty much orchestrated by Rossi again imo, and led me to re-evaluate Rossi’s character and assign him partial responsibility for the persecution of another somewhat recent excellent rider in Stoner, of whom I was obviously a fan.

When I thought the situation was what you imply it is now when he first returned to Yamaha, ie he was happy just to be competitive again doing what he loved riding in gp bike racing I actually admired him for that. I assess his machinations in recent years as greater than they ever were in his pomp, however, and I think the likes of MM, Vinales and Zarco should be able to prosecute their careers independent of same. I am perhaps questioning on the evidence of Valencia 2017 whether Jorge along with the other riders I have mentioned deserves as much sympathy as I formerly afforded him.
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Last edited by michaelm; February 21st, 2018 at 01:36 AM.
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February 21st, 2018, 05:18 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
Jesus tap dancing Christ. You didn’t have to type a goddamn wall of text. A simple “waaaaaaaahhhhh” would have sufficed.

No one brought Rossi up until you did, I personally have been doing my best to be neutral in this thread and is actually addressing the possibility of Zarco outperforming Rossi and Vinales but you lots of course read what you want to read.

I get it that you were probably dropped on your head as a baby, but you don’t need to constantly remind us of the same.
And regaular as clockwork, when you have no rebuttal you resort to a lame attempt at personal insults. Who's pathetic now?

You didn't upset me at all, only highlight that despite your assertions to the contrary, you are, like all of us, biased in one way or another.

You are now on my ignore list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
The fact that he hurt his leg in an enduro session with his younger lads, rather than a race, bolsters the argument that he was closely matched during the MotoGP championship with his teammate. No-one reasonably can measure the on-track performance of two competitors based on freak training accidents.

Even after missing a race, and even after riding affected with a leg break, VR finished within 22 points of MV. That's not getting "solidly" beaten.

Getting "solidly" beaten is what MM did to DP, or what AD did to JL in 2017.
I agree, 04 and 93 solidly beat their team mates in 2017, compared to 25 & 46. I totally disagree though that breaking his leg in a training accident somehow supports his argument that he was closely matched.

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Originally Posted by synn View Post
I’d be surprised if he beats his teammate this year.
Don't be, Dovi had a good year last yr, but has done virtually nothing in his previous 8 years, including 3 years on a factory Honda, the final year of which his new team mate came in and won a championship. In that same time, his current team mate has won 3 titles.

Dovi had a breakthrough season in 2017 for sure, but people are now talking like he is the second coming, where this time last yr most people expected him to win a race or two only.

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Originally Posted by synn View Post
There's no personal bias in here.
You have bias, stop trying to act like you are impartial.
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