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January 9th, 2018, 06:34 AM   #31
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Now, if the number is increased beyond 24 by a rule change, thence DORNA may well have breached contracts of these member teams with the increased number of bikes having the potential to lessen the income available to those member teams which means projections , out the window.
Dorna hardly have a good track record for integrity. They forced Bridgestone to supply Rossi tyres in 2008, the CEO acted as Rossi's personal agent to broker his move back to Yamaha in 2012 and more recently they signed a 5yr agreement to host a race with a track that didn't even exist. No doubt Carmelo's pockets were lined though so it's all good.
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January 9th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #32
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Dorna hardly have a good track record for integrity. They forced Bridgestone to supply Rossi tyres in 2008, the CEO acted as Rossi's personal agent to broker his move back to Yamaha in 2012 and more recently they signed a 5yr agreement to host a race with a track that didn't even exist. No doubt Carmelo's pockets were lined though so it's all good.
Agree on 2008. For 2013, it was between VR, Spies and Pol so I don't think Dorna intervention was needed.
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January 9th, 2018, 09:07 AM   #33
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Granted, you are quite possibly right. But you forgot Dovi, who took the Tech3 ride with a view to getting a factory seat in 2013. Ignoring the marketing draw, there is very little compelling argument to re-hire Rossi over Dovi again based on their 2012 form, especially back then as he was considered near retirement age.

However I was referring more to Ezpeleta's "I am calm" interview in the summer of 2012. Rossi was going to be back on the Yamaha come hell or high water.
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January 9th, 2018, 09:18 AM   #34
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Granted, you are quite possibly right. But you forgot Dovi, who took the Tech3 ride with a view to getting a factory seat in 2013. Ignoring the marketing draw, there is very little compelling argument to re-hire Rossi over Dovi again based on their 2012 form, especially back then as he was considered near retirement age.

However I was referring more to Ezpeleta's "I am calm" interview in the summer of 2012. Rossi was going to be back on the Yamaha come hell or high water.
Agree, I forgot to mention Dovi.

I don't think we can say there is "little compelling argument to re-hire Rossi over Dovi". Dovi had a solid season finishing 4th, but he was not seen as a real contender back then (let's not forget that 2017 was his breakthrough year). Rossi finished sixth on the Ducati, but most perceived that his poor performance was largely due to his inability to get along with the Ducati (based on his immediately poor results when he jumped on the Ducati versus his results on the Yamaha). I don't think anyone in 2012 would say that Rossi was no match for Dovi on equal machinery.
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January 9th, 2018, 10:47 AM   #35
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Apologies, I probably put that the wrong way. I am of course not trying to say even a 2017 Dovi is clearly better than a 2012 Rossi. However, many people are writing Lorenzo off after a year onboard the Ducati where he showed considerable improvement over the course of the season unlike Rossi in 2011, and even suggesting he be replaced by Petrucci who got fewer podiums in 2017 than Dovi did on the satellite Yamaha in 2012.

If it weren't for Rossi's marketing credentials and influence with Dorna, I doubt very few riders would step onto what was the reigning world champion bike and team given the performances he had in 2011/12 on the Desmo.

Thank you, I've enjoyed this debate
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January 9th, 2018, 11:20 AM   #36
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Likewise mate.

Lorenzo improved a lot this year. Petrucci was on fire for two or three races when those whispers started, but I think JL showed his class after that whereas Petrucci reverted to form. I agree that people are very harsh on JL.

He'll fight for the title next year, in my opinion.

If I were Yamaha, I would've certainly hired Rossi in 2013. He was the best rider on the market, and his performances since have showed that. Zarco is now knocking on his door though.
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January 9th, 2018, 11:32 AM   #37
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People are harsh on Lorenzo for the same reason they are harsh on Marquez. They are the main contenders to beat Rossi consistently.

I certainly hope you're right. If only to have another bike up there.

Yeah hindsight shows it was the right decision to put Rossi back on the Yamaha, but I think 2015 was his last chance. I think he knows it too which is why he had the meltdown he did. I'm just curious that if Yamaha/he has a mediocre season like they did last yr how much longer he'll carry on. Again, for the same of having good racing, I hope Yamaha fix their problems and are up there again. However their problems were pretty fundamental and without a major rule change for next yr, I can't see them clawing that much back. The last time they were in this much disarray was 2006, but then the championship went to 800cc the following season.
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January 9th, 2018, 12:30 PM   #38
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Agree on 2008. For 2013, it was between VR, Spies and Pol so I don't think Dorna intervention was needed.
Except that up until the intervention, Spies had been doing ok and after teh intervention, all went to sh*t.

Now, do I believe that something occurred between DORNA and Yamaha ............. absolutely although I have no proof just suspicion as there is no way that I can forget the 'Valentino will be riding a competitive bike next season' comment from Caramello which was said at the time that Rossi was denying leaving Ducati.

Valentino Rossi: ?I hope I can race next year with a competitive bike? | MCN

Now my thoughts are that as a manufacturer and knowing the dollars that come with VR, then if he wanted to ride for you thence it would be good business sense (financially) to consider it so I have no issue with the return, but I do suspect that DORNA looked after their golden goose
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January 9th, 2018, 01:51 PM   #39
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Except that up until the intervention, Spies had been doing ok and after teh intervention, all went to sh*t.

Now, do I believe that something occurred between DORNA and Yamaha ............. absolutely although I have no proof just suspicion as there is no way that I can forget the 'Valentino will be riding a competitive bike next season' comment from Caramello which was said at the time that Rossi was denying leaving Ducati.

Valentino Rossi: ?I hope I can race next year with a competitive bike? | MCN

Now my thoughts are that as a manufacturer and knowing the dollars that come with VR, then if he wanted to ride for you thence it would be good business sense (financially) to consider it so I have no issue with the return, but I do suspect that DORNA looked after their golden goose
I think he'd been having a terrible season up to that point in 2012. His results in the first five races were 11th, 11th, 8th, 16th and 10th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Spies
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January 9th, 2018, 04:15 PM   #40
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I think he'd been having a terrible season up to that point in 2012. His results in the first five races were 11th, 11th, 8th, 16th and 10th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Spies
But the previous year he had won for them and done ok which is where I come from.

A few bad races or results does not end a career and nor does it mean a loss of form (likewise, a sudden improvement does not mean a return to form) as consistency is the key to the whole issue.

IMO, but at that point Spies had not done enough that deserved his being dropped but, and this is the crux of the story for me, once Caramello made his comment, the rest was a given to occur.
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