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November 18th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Something I have also found of interest since his retirement.

Throughout forumland, people wanted him gone because he was a non-smiling, angry, opinionated, loud mouthed, whining, buck toothed sook.

So he went.

But then throughout much of the same forumland people say 'if only he would come back' with many of those same people failing to understand that he is now doing something he wishes to do and what is worse, is paid well to do it. He has a life, a family and a future all planned out that seems to be what many would consider to be somewhat ideal to be retired so young and yet still be in demand to ride the very machines that provided your opportunity and money whilst at the same time enjoying the benefits of sponsorships that remain ongoing.

For me, the sheer fact (as verified by HRC) that he knocked back 20 milliion US for a single year deal says it all.

Now before the usuals jump in, you will never find me saying that he is or was the best ever for IMO he was not, but he was fucking brilliantly talented and sensational to watch
You know the old saying: The best revenge is living well.
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November 18th, 2017, 05:59 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
You guys really need to chill on people with a different view of Stoner then yourself. People were around. They watched they can come their own conclusion but all I ever see is booper like reactions from you guy when people do. Quit trying insult your way to a winning argument. A bio is not proof of anything. It doesn't even seem to match with the reason he gave while retiring anyway. If that alone doesn't leave things open for debate then I think y'all need to take a step back.
This was a perfectly reasonable post. I donít see how it can be criticized or have have a problem with what you've said above. As you know I argue in favor of Stoner, which means we've disagreed; though I agree with you sentiments above, people should present their opinions and not get in return the knee-jerk reaction to lob insults as a supposed refute, me included. There are members who I disagreed with over the years, Talpa comes to mind, as many others whom I wish posted more often, he was a knowledgeable racing fan. MotoVuu, J4, and I can think of many in the past who despite my disagreements at least presented substantial attempts at explaining their position. For example, Babefish comes to mind, I had many disagreements with him, but that bloke at least knew a great deal about racing where we could have a substantive debate. Of course, human nature and the characteristics of Interneting is such that we can skip civility, not the least problem being any idiot who knows fuck all about racing and histrionics of the sport can take on simplistic affiliations similar to superficial fans of stick & ball sports and post unsophisticated and tiresome little crap posts of little value.

It's a right for anyone to take a position of disliking riders, Stoner shouldn't be immune, hell MigsEvilAngel hated Nicky Hayden, as repugnant as that sounds to me, and I'm sure there are other people on earth who shared Migs' fringe sentiments. Hell I've gone from admiring Jorge Lorenzo for years to, in a span of a month, hoping he shits away his career based on his selfish, exploitive, cut-throat, ruthless and opportunistic behavior to reassert himself at the most unforgivable moment after having a failed season.

I think if we're going to take a position on a rider it's important to make reasonable arguments when debating. Obviously that's a bit much to expect when Interneting knowing any little schmuck can log on, do a little Googling, watch a little racing here and there, then pretend to debate the sport.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Last edited by Jumkie; November 18th, 2017 at 06:08 PM.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
You know the old saying: The best revenge is living well.
On a serious side I do wonder if nationality and the expectations of one's nation also play a part.

In Oz, we generally do not have athletes who earn what could be called 'huge' dollars by world terms if we look at huge salaries being associated to sports such as american Basketball, US NFL, European football etc. Whilst we do have athletes in some of those arenas earning good dollars, they reside overseas and as such in Australia we actually get little mainstream coverage.

Now I mention this as what this means for many Australian athletes is that they will earn 'enough' to set themselves up such that they are comfortable with a number investing additional funds so that they have an ongoing income. Many of our very high profile athletes who retire from their sport will end up in a paid role such as coach or commentator as often they need a little supplementary income or they miss the attention of their former sport.

With our motorcycle retirement, many stay involved more from a 'less or non paid' role whilst others just stay away from the spotlight or earning smaller dollars in coaching or where they have earned well they often just seemingly disappear with little to no fanfare and/or ostentatious needs.

When you have an Australian athlete who generally displays their wealth or what is seen as a poor attitude they will cop it in the media (Bernard Tomic who flaunts his sports cars as an example) so often the 'wants' of a retired athlete may be seemingly less than that of other countries.

Not sure of this then plays a part into the 'expectations' that are placed on athletes as most Aussies want to be comfortable in their lives and that comfortable may mean somewhat different to that of the US or other countries.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:18 PM   #64
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This was a perfectly reasonable post. I donít see how it can be criticized or have have a problem with what you've said above. As you know I argue in favor of Stoner, which means we've disagreed; though I agree with you sentiments above, people should present their opinions and not get in return the knee-jerk reaction to lob insults as a supposed refute, me included. There are members who I disagreed with over the years, Talpa comes to mind, as many others whom I wish posted more often, he was a knowledgeable racing fan. MotoVuu, J4, and I can think of many in the past who despite my disagreements at least presented substantial attempts at explaining their position. For example, Babefish comes to mind, I had many disagreements with him but that bloke at least knew a great deal about racing where at least we could have a substantive debate. Of course, human nature and the characteristics of Interneting is such that we can skip civility, not the least problem being any idiot who knows fuck all about racing and histrionics of the sport can take on simplistic affiliations similar to superficial fans of stick & ball sports and post unsophisticated and tiresome little crap posts of little value.

It's a right for anyone to take a position of disliking riders, Stoner shouldn't be immune, hell MigsEvilAngel hated Nicky Hayden, as repugnant as that sounds to me, and I'm sure there are other people on earth who shared Migs' fringe sentiments. Hell I've gone from admiring Jorge Lorenzo for years to, in a span of a month, hoping he shits away his career based on his selfish, exploitive, cut-throat, ruthless and opportunistic behavior to reassert himself after having a failed season.

I think if we're going to take a position on a rider it's important to make reasonable arguments when debating. Obviously that's a bit much to expect when Interneting knowing any schmuck can log on, do a bit of Googling, watch a race here and there, then pretend to debate the sport.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
It was a perfectly reasonable individual post and you are correct to defend your actual friend, and I am getting old and crabby and should stop posting when in the grip of insomnia, or perhaps at all.

From my point of view I got jack of being patronised for being a passionate fan on a fan forum, by someone who couldn't actually ever win a debate with me on the issues concerned back in the day, and the issue is fresh for me because I have seen the same phenomenon unfolding for Marquez and Lorenzo since late 2015, since when I have become a much more argumentative poster as you may just possibly have noticed. If Lorenzo now proves or has proved to be undeserving of sympathy, so be it.

We also had a very nasty flame war on here not 2 years ago based on the principle of it not being appropriate for posters to direct other posters as to how they should comport themselves or what they should discuss.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
You guys really need to chill on people with a different view of Stoner then yourself. People were around. They watched they can come their own conclusion but all I ever see is booper like reactions from you guy when people do. Quit trying insult your way to a winning argument. A bio is not proof of anything. It doesn't even seem to match with the reason he gave while retiring anyway. If that alone doesn't leave things open for debate then I think y'all need to take a step back.
Totally agree.

A biography is a story (emphasis on story) which is often told from a biased or tainted perspective (depends on whether authorised or not as to where that bias may lay).

Very few biographies would tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth without some form of message to be delivered, favourable (or not, again depending on the side of the fence) statements and generally things that will stand the individual subject in a good light.

I have read the CS one and found it an interesting book to be honest, more around the childhood struggles and some of the aspects he experienced growing up and personally I do not see much of what is commented here (both sides).
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November 18th, 2017, 06:27 PM   #66
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Don't you ever get tired of not saying anything but telling other people they're not saying anything.

Dude. Look at your contributions. You never have anything to say but critiques of posters. I could give a shit what people post, Im not here to nanny, but you are a redundant boor.
Oh, the irony is endless. How many times on this forum when accused of being boorish have you whinged about your freedom being impinged by a perceived nanny state?
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November 18th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Totally agree.

A biography is a story (emphasis on story) which is often told from a biased or tainted perspective (depends on whether authorised or not as to where that bias may lay).

Very few biographies would tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth without some form of message to be delivered, favourable (or not, again depending on the side of the fence) statements and generally things that will stand the individual subject in a good light.

I have read the CS one and found it an interesting book to be honest, more around the childhood struggles and some of the aspects he experienced growing up and personally I do not see much of what is commented here (both sides).
True - yet all the same, I'd take Stoner's word as regards his motivation for retiring over that of someone whose animosity for Stoner is so blatant as to render his opinions devoid of objectivity.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:41 PM   #68
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... I remember the recent sentiment regarding the WSBK rider who killed himself being very sympathetic to his reasoning. It was understandable why he would end his life after losing his ride and having to flip burgers. ...
You made a well argued post, and this is what i was just saying to Mdub, I enjoy reading posts that present a position then support it with substantial reasons. (Though I disagreed with some of your points, particularly because I would argue MotoGP is quite distinct from the generalities of typical league sports); nevertheless, this point above caught my attention. Your analysis and conclusion of why people were sympathetic to Maxime Berger's suicide doesnít follow your assessment, at least not what I read from people's reactions on the forum, I think we'd be jumping to conclusions that he killed himself because of a supposed inability to cope with flipping burgers. The report of his suicide made mention of his then employment, but it didn't offer any evidence that this was the motive for his suicide. More to the point, I didn't read anybody being sympathetic to suicide over the notion that he couldn't cope with a menial job after supposed hopes of grandeur. As for me, and im sure you agree, I don't know why people commit suicide, but I assume they had substantial reason.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #69
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Oh, the irony is endless. How many times on this forum when accused of being boorish have you whinged about your freedom being impinged by a perceived nanny state?
You have no self awareness whatsoever

You see the join date by my name? 10 plus years Walter. Everything you've said has been said by scores before. Your facsimile is about as fresh and relevant as facsimile's.
If I haven't changed in 10 years why would you think I'm going to start now?

Your a one dimensional dullard who is either whining or musing. This is my last reply to you. Your boring as fuck and not worth reading or replying.
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November 18th, 2017, 06:58 PM   #70
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Totally agree.

A biography is a story (emphasis on story) which is often told from a biased or tainted perspective (depends on whether authorised or not as to where that bias may lay).

Very few biographies would tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth without some form of message to be delivered, favourable (or not, again depending on the side of the fence) statements and generally things that will stand the individual subject in a good light.

I have read the CS one and found it an interesting book to be honest, more around the childhood struggles and some of the aspects he experienced growing up and personally I do not see much of what is commented here (both sides).
Of course it is his own perspective and doesn't prove anything, and as his statements in interviews when he was racing frequently did contains inconsistencies. Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean the world isn't against you however, and I did draw from it that he didn't think him winning titles was popular with Dorna with his title wins, particularly the second one, seeming to prompt rule changes, and that he like MM was not keen on the element among fandom who would boo riders on podiums, spit at them etc given the element of risk in the sport, a sport which exists at least partly for the entertainment of said fans.

It is the pressure/mentally weak thing to which I object; if Valentino Rossi, Mick Doohan, Marc Marquez or Dovi for that matter want to call him weak fine, but not armchair critics when he has won 38 premier class races and 2 titles, 23 of the races and 1 of the titles on a ride that has derailed the careers and in some cases gone close to actually breaking pretty much every other rider who has accepted the seat, with the exceptions of Dovi obviously and perhaps Capirossi. Sure Rossi, Doohan, MM etc are tougher/have exhibited much more sustained focus, and all credit to them for that, but the way he rode that Ducati hardly betrayed any lack of courage.
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