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November 8th, 2017, 05:24 AM   #1
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Stoner: I could have beaten Marquez in straight fight

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Casey Stoner believes he would have been able to beat Marc Marquez in a straight fight, had he not chosen to retire from MotoGP before the Spaniard made his debut.

Two-time world champion Stoner decided to hang up his helmet at the end of the 2012 season, aged just 27, with Marquez stepping up to take his place at the Repsol Honda team the following year.

The Spanish rider went on to seal his maiden premier class crown in his first season before adding further triumphs in 2014 and 2016, and is strong favourite to take a fourth title in this weekend’s Valencia season finale.

However, Stoner reckons that the calibre of the riders he beat during his career means he would have also been able to come on top against Marquez, had their top-level careers overlapped.

“People always ask me if I could beat him [Marquez], and there a lot of things that suggest I could,” Stoner said in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.

“I won against [Jorge] Lorenzo, Valentino [Rossi], [Andrea] Dovizioso, and they have all beaten him. So there’s no reason to say I couldn’t have done also.

“And like Dovizioso is doing now, I could have fought with him for the title.”

Stoner rejoined Ducati at the start of 2016 to take up a test and ambassadorial role with the Italian manufacturer, declining the opportunity to make a wildcard race appearance in Austria.

The 32-year-old was eager to reiterate he has no regrets about choosing to retire when he did, and that he is not struggling to keep himself occupied between his test duties and his family life.

“I’m a test rider and someone who is very happy with his life,” added the Australian. “I am happy that I don’t have to put up with the stress of racing.

“I’m enjoying spending time with my family. I’m always doing something, I don’t get bored. I’ve never regretted the things I did, like deciding to retire.

“I don’t need it [competition] anymore. I started racing when I was four years old and I had a longer career than many people.”

Stoner also took the chance to refute rumours of his relationship with Ducati cooling, underlining that plans for his 2018 testing programme are already being made.

“It’s not true,” he said. “We’ve already planned the first test of 2018, and then we’ll see [about future tests] depending on how development goes.”


Sure you could have Casey...should put your money where your mouth is.
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November 8th, 2017, 05:40 AM   #2
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Sure you could have Casey...should put your money where your mouth is.
Yes. Maybe he could have, but easy to say retired for nearly 5 complete seasons now with no intention to return.

MM is bidding fair for his 4th title in those 5 seasons, end of story.
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November 8th, 2017, 06:04 AM   #3
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Yes. Maybe he could have, but easy to say retired for nearly 5 complete seasons now with no intention to return.

MM is bidding fair for his 4th title in those 5 seasons, end of story.
It's really like Stoner needs to convince himself he can still compete without actually going out there and competing. Like I said in the past, it would have been a fantastic matchup to have both of them on the Repsol Honda as it would have made them better riders at the end of the day. But while he can believe what he would like, without ever having directly competed against Marquez, it's a moot point to make any claim.
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November 8th, 2017, 06:31 AM   #4
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I Ride: 2014 hp4 2012 1199s 07 ninja zx6r track bike
i have to say no. as big of a stoner fan as i am and would love to see him back casey would not beat MM for the title. He may win a race or several but over time he would not win the title. lets face it stoner was an amazing talent no question, however mentally he wasnt there. now im not talking about the so called rossi head games but MM would have broke him down.
its kind of like labron and jordan casey being labron and MM being jordan. maybe labron if more gifted but jordan would have destroyed him head to head. the will to win at any cost is what jordan and MM have. casey and lebron have amazing talent but at the end of the day its whatever happens im happy with no need to put my neck out i can always try again next time

oh if you think you can beat him do it race if not zip it.
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Last edited by mark419ny; November 8th, 2017 at 06:33 AM.
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November 8th, 2017, 07:46 AM   #5
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Stoner shat himself when people raced him.
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November 8th, 2017, 08:51 AM   #6
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First of all, the title of the article is sensational clickbait, designed to spark clicks and debate typically overshadowing what was actually said.

Comment on what he actually said:

“People always ask me if I could beat him [Marquez], and there a lot of things that suggest I could,” Stoner said in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.

“I won against [Jorge] Lorenzo, Valentino [Rossi], [Andrea] Dovizioso, and they have all beaten him. So there’s no reason to say I couldn’t have done also."

It is ridiculous to sit here and shit on the obvious likelihood of him still being a possible winner when you look at this season over some grievance we harbor about him retiring. Second, he did put his balls on the line to support his statement, Marc's handlers and Honda chickenshitness prevented it (fact).

No matter what Stoner replied to this question he was gonna be shit on, regardless that his statement is as he put it, likely, "there a lot of things that suggest I could." His isn't the statement some of you are disputing, he isn't giving any absurd "guarantees".

JP, i noticed you soured on Casey since he didn't fulfil many of our misplaced hopes that he would wildcard. Sure it's disappointing, but he has no reason to prove anything, especially now that he's happy with his family life, which I can appreciate. I find it fascinating that some of you here, particularly you and others who are skeptical of Dovi, who has beat Marquez on 5 occasion this year, twice a last lap duel, something that if we sat around debating hypothetically, would have offered our first borns that nobody ever ( least being Dovi) could best the great Marc in a last lap duel; glad this hypothetical debate has an answer. Nonetheless, in this hypothetical debate, Stoner saying there is a decent likelyhood and evidence to support he could beat Marquez and we object? That's a bit disconnected.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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Last edited by Jumkie; November 8th, 2017 at 08:59 AM.
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November 8th, 2017, 10:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
It's really like Stoner needs to convince himself he can still compete without actually going out there and competing.
What did CS say to lead you to conclude this was a psychological exercise in an attempt to convince himself, particularly shallow as you suggested because he remains retired? I didn't read it this way at all pal, he told us he's asked repeatedly this question, it's US ( proxy by reporters as it goes) that seem "need convincing" or rather "reporters" think we need to be convinced of such a hypothetical, tapping in to our wondering 'what if' Marc and Casey raced. He is being asked the question, he's not tweeting 'yo, I just caught this great fish on the lake, btw I could totally beat Marquez.'

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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Like I said in the past, it would have been a fantastic matchup to have both of them on the Repsol Honda as it would have made them better riders at the end of the day.

I agree, it would have been awesome to see these two on the same shitty Honda over a season, ha!

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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
But while he can believe what he would like, without ever having directly competed against Marquez, it's a moot point to make any claim.
The tone of this statement suggests to highlight your conclusion that Stoner is conveniently saying this without any determination to prove otherwise. It doesn't seem like your intention here to point out the obvious regarding questions of debate, though i disagree with your overall suggestion that Stoner conveniently can sit on the lake and answer such inquiry; notwithstanding, that's precisely the point of moot points.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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November 8th, 2017, 02:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
First of all, the title of the article is sensational clickbait, designed to spark clicks and debate typically overshadowing what was actually said.

Comment on what he actually said:

“People always ask me if I could beat him [Marquez], and there a lot of things that suggest I could,” Stoner said in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.

“I won against [Jorge] Lorenzo, Valentino [Rossi], [Andrea] Dovizioso, and they have all beaten him. So there’s no reason to say I couldn’t have done also."

It is ridiculous to sit here and shit on the obvious likelihood of him still being a possible winner when you look at this season over some grievance we harbor about him retiring. Second, he did put his balls on the line to support his statement, Marc's handlers and Honda chickenshitness prevented it (fact).

No matter what Stoner replied to this question he was gonna be shit on, regardless that his statement is as he put it, likely, "there a lot of things that suggest I could." His isn't the statement some of you are disputing, he isn't giving any absurd "guarantees".

JP, i noticed you soured on Casey since he didn't fulfil many of our misplaced hopes that he would wildcard. Sure it's disappointing, but he has no reason to prove anything, especially now that he's happy with his family life, which I can appreciate. I find it fascinating that some of you here, particularly you and others who are skeptical of Dovi, who has beat Marquez on 5 occasion this year, twice a last lap duel, something that if we sat around debating hypothetically, would have offered our first borns that nobody ever ( least being Dovi) could best the great Marc in a last lap duel; glad this hypothetical debate has an answer. Nonetheless, in this hypothetical debate, Stoner saying there is a decent likelyhood and evidence to support he could beat Marquez and we object? That's a bit disconnected.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Sure, if he feels the need to come out and say this spontaneously it is problematic imo.

However if it is the usual story of being repeatedly asked a question by reporters looking for controversy/clickbait then he can't really be expected to say"MM would have smashed me" and his response is reasonable for the reasons you (and he) give; he is in all truth still able to go close to Dovi's times as a test rider 5 years retired, did easily beat him on supposedly equal bikes at HRC where Dovi in fact adopted his settings, was actually prepared to wildcard against MM with MM's crew/management reputedly opposing same etc.
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November 8th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #9
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Stoner shat himself when people raced him.
When exactly?. When Rossi lost his bike and left the track to maintain position which would be illegal now if it wasn't then and would have torpedoed him if not for rapid evasive action by Stoner who was riding a bike in all likelihood 1.5 seconds a lap slower around Laguna Seca in anyone else's hands including Rossi's rather than intrinsically a half a second a lap faster as was the belief at the time?.

All that stuff was from the Ducati days, riding a bike which was non-competitive for anyone else (including Rossi in all likelihood) and just wouldn't turn, as has been revealed by the experience of many subsequent riders including Rossi. Stoner rode the Ducati of his time the only way it could be ridden competitively, which involved nearly crashing it on every corner by the testimony of JB and Rossi themselves who had access to his telemetry when they undertook their Ducati adventure, and you think he should have hung back to dogfight nimble Yamahas?.
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November 8th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mark419ny View Post
i have to say no. as big of a stoner fan as i am and would love to see him back casey would not beat MM for the title. He may win a race or several but over time he would not win the title. lets face it stoner was an amazing talent no question, however mentally he wasnt there. now im not talking about the so called rossi head games but MM would have broke him down.
its kind of like labron and jordan casey being labron and MM being jordan. maybe labron if more gifted but jordan would have destroyed him head to head. the will to win at any cost is what jordan and MM have. casey and lebron have amazing talent but at the end of the day its whatever happens im happy with no need to put my neck out i can always try again next time

oh if you think you can beat him do it race if not zip it.
I agree to the extent that I think MM's overall approach is much more conducive to longevity as a premier class rider. Stoner had to really wind himself up to ride with the focus he had in 2007 and 2011, at apparently significant personal cost, a major reason why he no longer races, while what MM does seems to be as natural as breathing for him, he is a natural born shark as Jumkie says.

The peak Stoner of 2007 and 2011, years where he was really motivated to prove the world wrong, rode basically perfectly and mistake-free with absolute focus and allowed nothing to phase him, against MM would have been a battle for the ages imo, which is why many on here deeply regret it never occurred; it may have come down to what Nakamoto actually said, Marc has faster reflexes but Casey is a genius on a bike. MM is well in the conversation as the all-time great rider, but can be beaten as Dovi has shown, and not least by himself as the 2015 season demonstrated, and HRC themselves reputedly had a concern that Stoner wildcarding as his team-mate might increase the already high likelihood of him throwing his bike down the road that year. Admittedly current MM seems to have learned to ride in a more measured fashion.

I hate to raise the development card so beloved of Rossi fans over the ages, but it is also not impossible Stoner might have an advantage in that aspect.

Last edited by michaelm; November 9th, 2017 at 04:34 AM.
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