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November 9th, 2017, 04:30 AM   #11
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Context is everything. The question asked would seem to be, more accurately, would 27 year-old Stoner be able to beat MM.

Answer: of course.

Would 32 year-old Stoner be able to do it?

As has been already said, some races, but championships? Not likely.
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November 9th, 2017, 07:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
First of all, the title of the article is sensational clickbait, designed to spark clicks and debate typically overshadowing what was actually said.

Sucked you in then didn't it LOL.

Maybe Stoner did have a talent, but he threw it out the window with the bathwater, the whinging and whining, was like a fan with a dry bearing.
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November 9th, 2017, 08:08 AM   #13
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MM's team didn't accept the challenge when Stoner wanted to wildcard...
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November 9th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post

JP, i noticed you soured on Casey since he didn't fulfil many of our misplaced hopes that he would wildcard. Sure it's disappointing, but he has no reason to prove anything, especially now that he's happy with his family life, which I can appreciate. I find it fascinating that some of you here, particularly you and others who are skeptical of Dovi, who has beat Marquez on 5 occasion this year, twice a last lap duel, something that if we sat around debating hypothetically, would have offered our first borns that nobody ever ( least being Dovi) could best the great Marc in a last lap duel; glad this hypothetical debate has an answer. Nonetheless, in this hypothetical debate, Stoner saying there is a decent likelyhood and evidence to support he could beat Marquez and we object? That's a bit disconnected.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Sure I've soured because he runs around testing bikes making proclamations about how competitive he is based on testing times which means fuck-all in the grand scheme of things. Testing is not a race. Mind you I do think he would be competitive certainly if he chose to wild card, but unless he does that, his testing times don't really matter at the end of the day. There is no title given for top testing sheets, and surely there is no championship given either for the same thing. For a guy who pretty much ran away from GP, even he can't fully stay away which is my whole thing of put up or shut up. Shoe up and get back out there are stay the fuck home with your family and don't do anything GP related including testing. Would he beat MM in individual races? Sure. Over the course of a championship? Not anymore.

Dovi besting MM at the last corner of a track that favored Ducati massively in 2016, and suddenly watched that advantage evaporate the following year speaks volumes. I've said it multiple times, the real story was not that Dovi won the race, it was that HRC sorted the bike out enough for Marc that the Ducati horsepower advantage was not nearly enough to let the Desmosedici run away with the race. I maintain Marc's only mistake was showing his hand too early with the overtakes in turns 5 and 6 as he had an immense amount of corner speed there that was hard for anyone to match. It allowed Dovi to prepare a reasonable defense in those sections since he could better defend in the hard braking zone of the final corner. MM made a banzai move that was never going to take and was lucky he didn't wind up on his ass frankly with the move which while breathtaking in audacity, was IMO ill-advised. But it's racing and only he would have ever attempted it which speaks to who he is as a racer and why he is on the cusp of a possible 4th world championship.
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November 9th, 2017, 12:46 PM   #15
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I agree, it would have been awesome to see these two on the same shitty Honda over a season, ha!
They would have been paired up on the 2013 and 2014 RCV's which were never the bikes I've said had issues. It was the 2015, 2016, and part of 2017 RCV's that had the most issues. Who knows though, had Stoner still been racing, maybe the 2015 engine that HRC went with never goes through and 2015 unfolds entirely differently with a HRC world title rather than the Lorenzo/Rossi battle. Interesting possibility to muse. I do like the thought of Stoner not quitting because the midget would have been punted right out Repsol Honda instead of holding onto that seat long past his sell-by-date.
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November 9th, 2017, 12:48 PM   #16
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MM's team didn't accept the challenge when Stoner wanted to wildcard...
I personally thought it was criminal that it happened. COTA would have been quite an amazing race had that wild card gone through.
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November 9th, 2017, 01:29 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Sure I've soured because he runs around testing bikes making proclamations about how competitive he is based on testing times which means fuck-all in the grand scheme of things. Testing is not a race. Mind you I do think he would be competitive certainly if he chose to wild card, but unless he does that, his testing times don't really matter at the end of the day. There is no title given for top testing sheets, and surely there is no championship given either for the same thing. For a guy who pretty much ran away from GP, even he can't fully stay away which is my whole thing of put up or shut up. Shoe up and get back out there are stay the fuck home with your family and don't do anything GP related including testing. Would he beat MM in individual races? Sure. Over the course of a championship? Not anymore.

Dovi besting MM at the last corner of a track that favored Ducati massively in 2016, and suddenly watched that advantage evaporate the following year speaks volumes. I've said it multiple times, the real story was not that Dovi won the race, it was that HRC sorted the bike out enough for Marc that the Ducati horsepower advantage was not nearly enough to let the Desmosedici run away with the race. I maintain Marc's only mistake was showing his hand too early with the overtakes in turns 5 and 6 as he had an immense amount of corner speed there that was hard for anyone to match. It allowed Dovi to prepare a reasonable defense in those sections since he could better defend in the hard braking zone of the final corner. MM made a banzai move that was never going to take and was lucky he didn't wind up on his ass frankly with the move which while breathtaking in audacity, was IMO ill-advised. But it's racing and only he would have ever attempted it which speaks to who he is as a racer and why he is on the cusp of a possible 4th world championship.
Just for my information, when has he made proclamations as to his possible current competitiveness based on times in current/recent testing?. His fans including me have been wont to do so at times, but not him to my knowledge. Even with this current thing he has based his contention on being competitive when he was racing against riders who have been competitive against MM; cheap talk I agree if he feels the need to make such a claim spontaneously to the world at large, not so bad in response to being repeatedly asked by journalists imo.
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November 9th, 2017, 01:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
They would have been paired up on the 2013 and 2014 RCV's which were never the bikes I've said had issues. It was the 2015, 2016, and part of 2017 RCV's that had the most issues. Who knows though, had Stoner still been racing, maybe the 2015 engine that HRC went with never goes through and 2015 unfolds entirely differently with a HRC world title rather than the Lorenzo/Rossi battle. Interesting possibility to muse. I do like the thought of Stoner not quitting because the midget would have been punted right out Repsol Honda instead of holding onto that seat long past his sell-by-date.
I thought it was 2015 when Dani was out to have surgery on his clavicle because the internal fixation device was causing vascular problems, when the bike was problematic and MM was prone to throwing it down the road, which HRC thought trying to best Stoner might further prompt him to do.
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November 9th, 2017, 03:35 PM   #19
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Stoner on the Ducati reminds me of Senna driving the Lotus or Lawson the 89 Honda. Talk whatever you like for me these are extremely rare moments where I witnessed drivers doing basically the impossible. Sure Schumi and now Hamilton have more championships, would either drive the Lotus faster than Senna? Could Marquez have piloted the 07 Duc to the championship ahead of Stoner?

For me no, don’t care if he wins 20 championships on a Honda give him Stoners career path riding shitty bikes and second rate tires for years he wouldn’t have done any better. In fact I think it would have broken him. Like I said crashing on a factory Honda is nothing like crashing a crap satelight bike on second tier Mishitelins. By the same token give Hamilton Sennas career path he would be a flop. What you have with Senna and Stoner are drivers all the others look up to and admit ok what they could do, that’s impossible it can’t be replicated.
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November 9th, 2017, 04:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by birdman View Post
Stoner on the Ducati reminds me of Senna driving the Lotus or Lawson the 89 Honda. Talk whatever you like for me these are extremely rare moments where I witnessed drivers doing basically the impossible. Sure Schumi and now Hamilton have more championships, would either drive the Lotus faster than Senna? Could Marquez have piloted the 07 Duc to the championship ahead of Stoner?

For me no, don’t care if he wins 20 championships on a Honda give him Stoners career path riding shitty bikes and second rate tires for years he wouldn’t have done any better. In fact I think it would have broken him. Like I said crashing on a factory Honda is nothing like crashing a crap satelight bike on second tier Mishitelins. By the same token give Hamilton Sennas career path he would be a flop. What you have with Senna and Stoner are drivers all the others look up to and admit ok what they could do, that’s impossible it can’t be replicated.
Senna's pole lap at Adelaide 1985 was on the absolute limit. Watch how the car just dances on the limit of grip.



Mesmerizing to watch. You can hear him blipping the throttle repeatedly to keep the boost pressure from dropping. One of the things that made him absolutely magical behind the wheel. I do agree that the comparison between he and Stoner on the ability is apt, and their technical feedback was legendary. Senna never quit though. You could argue it was that unwillingness that cost him his life, but he would not ever settle for giving up, which is more of what Marquez is made of. And Wayne Rainey for that matter.
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