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November 13th, 2017, 01:08 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
once doesn't make him better than Rossi.
And if he was good at being anything more than a wingman, HRC would have catered mainly to him, like they did with the pocket bike RC212V.
Exactly my point. Dani is actually good at being a wingman, although I think he too has been in a premier seat too long, while Rossi has never been on board with having a competitive team mate.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:11 AM   #72
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I don’t even know what that means, but I sense that logic and reason are not your strong suits.
Nor yours it would seem. The problem as opposed to Barry is that you would appear to be completely serious.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by p4p1 View Post
You can tell that by the way Dovi and Lorenzo hate each other with a passion and never celebrate the others good results. Yamaha lose Lorenzo and suddenly they have their worst results since he joined the team, Ducati gain Lorenzo and they have their best season since Stoner made their bike look rideable. Must just be a strange coincidence I guess.

Vinales says he flat out doesn't want the new 2017 chassis change because it's worse, Rossi demands the chassis change and both of their results dramatically suffer. Coincidence or just another case of Rossi being wrong?

Stoner says the Ducati is unrideable and the engineers aren't giving him what he wants. Rossi says he will fix the bike, gets ever demand he wants including changing their entire design strategy with the bike and giving him a twin bar frame and they don't win again for 6 seasons until a track they could've designed themselves is put on the calendar. Another coincidence?

Actually, go back and watch the Sepang celebrations. Dovi and Lorenzo barely acknowledged each other. In the pits at Valencia, Lorenzo came to give Dovi a tap on his shoulder and Dovi looked like he wanted to be somewhere else than next to him. The rest of the crew ignored Lorenzo.

Regarding development, I wrote a long post in the Valencia thread, but the forum says a moderator has to approve it. But here are the highlights.

Ducati and KTM showed the rest of the grid the importance of europe based testing (Which makes sense as most tracks are in europe). Pirro deserves the credit for this more than Stoner and Lorenzo (And Dovi), given how he rides the bike like a mule day in and day out. He is so good that Yamaha is making a pitch for him to start a Europe based test squad.What was lacking in the team previously was a boss like Gigi who would take rider feedback seriously, be it from the test riders or the racers.

No one is forcing Vinales to use a chassis he doesnt like. The great thing about a factory team is that each rider can have whatever chassis they want. Just like how Marquez has been using the chassis of his liking for years, compared to an entirely different one that Pedrosa uses.

At the end of 2016, Rossi told Yamaha that the 2016 chassis had great feeling, but it chewed through tyres. Yamaha went back to the drawing board and came back with something that he immediately told was not great. Vinales went fast on it in the test tracks that are nothing like most of the tracks on the calendar. This masked the big defects in that chassis. Rossi on the other hand, made the mistake of thinking that the tyre was the problem. All this lead to months of dredging along in the wrong direction.

...and Rossi was proven right when both he and Vinales said after Valencia that the 2016 chassis felt great (But ate tyres like it did before). The same Vinales who originally said the 2017 bike was better.

None of this has anything to do with Lorenzo's presence or absence.

Last edited by synn; November 13th, 2017 at 01:21 AM.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by synn View Post
Actually, go back and watch the Sepang celebrations. Dovi and Lorenzo barely acknowledged each other. In the pits at Valencia, Lorenzo came to give Dovi a tap on his shoulder and Dovi looked like he wanted to be somewhere else than next to him. The rest of the crew ignored Lorenzo.

Regarding development, I wrote a long post in the Valencia thread, but the forum says a moderator has to approve it. But here are the highlights.

Ducati and KTM showed the rest of the grid the importance of europe based testing (Which makes sense as most tracks are in europe). Pirro deserves the credit for this more than Stoner and Lorenzo (And Dovi), given how he rides the bike like a mule day in and day out. He is so good that Yamaha is making a pitch for him to start a Europe based test squad.What was lacking in the team previously was a boss like Gigi who would take rider feedback seriously, be it from the test riders or the racers.

No one is forcing Vinales to use a chassis he doesnt like. The great thing about a factory team is that each rider can have whatever chassis they want. Just like how Marquez has been using the chassis of his liking for years, compared to an entirely different one that Pedrosa uses.

At the end of 2016, Rossi told Yamaha that the 2016 chassis had great feeling, but it chewed through tyres. Yamaha went back to the drawing board and came back with something that he immediately told was not great. Vinales went fast on it in the test tracks that are nothing like most of the tracks on the calendar. This masked the big defects in that chassis. Rossi on the other hand, made the mistake of thinking that the tyre was the problem. All this lead to months of dredging along in the wrong direction.

...and Rossi was proven right when both he and Vinales said after Valencia that the 2016 chassis felt great (But ate tyres like it did before). The same Vinales who originally said the 2017 bike was better.

None of this has anything to do with Lorenzo's presence or absence.
Ahh I see the problem with your logic and reason ..... you are thinking rossi is never wrong. And then concocting fairy stories to suit that assumption.

The problem is right there at the beginning .... rossi is almost always wrong and you want theis not to be true.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Exactly my point. Dani is actually good at being a wingman, although I think he too has been in a premier seat too long, while Rossi has never been on board with having a competitive team mate.
Dani is good at being a wingman because that’s all he’s good at. If he had any faith in himself at being a title contender, he would have left Repsol Honda after they threw everything and the kitchen sink into the Marquez camp.

He’s a more talented Colin Edwards.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:29 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BarryMachine View Post
Ahh I see the problem with your logic and reason ..... you are thinking rossi is never wrong. And then concocting fairy stories to suit that assumption.

The problem is right there at the beginning .... rossi is almost always wrong and you want theis not to be true.
Thank you for that completely pointless and moronic post that will take away precious bytes from the internet that could have used for something way more productive.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:34 AM   #77
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Thank you for that completely pointless and moronic post that will take away precious bytes from the internet that could have used for something way more productive.
Oh ... and rossi sucks.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:37 AM   #78
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I sometimes wonder how overstated the racer is in developing the bike, I mean if I was an expert in motorcycle engineering I wouldn't be putting too much onus on the ramblings of a racer, I mean every racer is different aren't they?
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November 13th, 2017, 01:41 AM   #79
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I actually wouldn’t have a problem with him continuing in a Pedrosa role. One time I actually warmed to him was after the Ducati adventure when MM was smashing everyone and he said that he was happy merely to be still out there and competitive, while Jorge and Dani couldn’t accept having no chance for the title, or words to that general effect.

He seems to have gone back to situation normal now however, and while he is there seems to require the sport to be all about him, hence my view that he is holding the sport in general and Yamaha in particular to ransom, while the careers of worthy younger riders continue to be blighted for the sin of beating him.
I'd say the opposite, if he's not suiting up and getting on the bike with the intentions of competing for the championship then he should retire. The only reason to race is to attempt to win, intentionally being a wingman like Pedrosa is lame and hard to respect.
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November 13th, 2017, 01:43 AM   #80
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I sometimes wonder how overstated the racer is in developing the bike, I mean if I was an expert in motorcycle engineering I wouldn't be putting too much onus on the ramblings of a racer, I mean every racer is different aren't they?
This is what I was saying. The racer is only one cog in developing the bike.

Their job is to tell the crew chief what they want, what works and what doesn’t. The crew chief translates this to engineer speak for the mechanics to do quick set up changes and for R&D to develop new parts. If any of these cogs fail, development will suffer.

Márquez’s talent notwithstanding, take Santi away from him and see how the Honda develops.

For Yamaha, the problem, at least this year seems to be that the R&D guys took whatever feedback they got, tried to fix the two main problems (power and tyre life), succeeded moderately at that, but ended up ruining the core strength of th bike (handling).

No rider in any team is responsible for that. They don’t give feedback such as “improve tire life, I don’t care if the handling suffers”.
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