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November 5th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #11
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It may be an old interview, but it is insightful regarding the direction of Yamaha development. It is virtually impossible to come to a different conclusion than Jums and Pov.
Looks like Yamaha is going to ride the Rossi train into the ground.
Smart thing to do would be to convince major sponsors to get on board with Zarco and put the pedal to the metal for the new generation of riders. Maybe have those new sponsors buy vr a nice gold watch and put him out to pasture with with a golden parachute .
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November 5th, 2017, 08:44 PM   #12
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Looks like Yamaha is going to ride the Rossi train into the ground.
Yes they are.

Zarco can replace Rossi when he can sell more shirts and hats.
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November 7th, 2017, 06:33 AM   #13
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You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.
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November 7th, 2017, 10:33 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.
Certainly, something odd was going on within the factory garage. Viñales was the factory’s leading rider but he wasn’t getting what he wanted. Yamaha wouldn’t even allow him to reveal which chassis he was using. “They won’t let me tell you,” he said, looking more confused and demoralised than ever.

Although Viñales now complained mostly about acceleration traction and wheelspin, his rider coach Wilco Zeelenberg believes the change of front tyre was the season’s turning point. With the 06, “Maverick could do anything with the bike,”

As I’ve said all along, yes , Yamaha tossed a championship contending bike out the window when they backed Rossi’s revolt for a new front tire.
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November 7th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.
Uh J4Rn0, this is the team that chased a triple world champion out the door to Ducati because of Rossi. They would chase down a developmental dead end to please Rossi.

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November 7th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Uh J4Rn0, this is the team that chased a triple world champion out the door to Ducati because of Rossi. They would chase down a developmental dead end to please Rossi.

They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.
Straight after Valencia is the start of Yamaha putting their bike right.
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November 7th, 2017, 12:07 PM   #17
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They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.
They thought Rossi's feelings were more important than Lorenzo's championship.

So, having their rider win the championship was not the most important thing to them.

Not upsetting Rossi was more important.

#HatsAndTshirts
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November 7th, 2017, 12:40 PM   #18
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They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.
Straight after Valencia is the start of Yamaha putting their bike right.
HAHAHA that's hilarious.

He chose to leave because of the toxic Yamaha environment that Rossi was allowed to perpetrate because Lin Jarvis and the rest of Yamaha have no spine. T-shirts and ratings mattered more to them than winning races. Now they are about to possibly have KTM breathing down their neck in 2018....well they would be guaranteed to if KTM can go find a top tier rider. If the rumors are true and KTM decides to go after Marquez for 2019, Yamaha may be in deep shit by that point. But anyhow that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Vinales is finding out that Yamaha will now do anything to appease Rossi including chasing down engineering dead ends at his expense. Rossi got all of his changes and managed to cripple Yamahahaha's entire season.

Development god?

Absolutely not.

2018 promises to be more of the same if they follow anymore of his legendary "direction". But one can only hope! I bet Maverick wishes he had stayed on the GSX-RR now.
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November 7th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi?

No not intentionally, but rather unintended consequence of circling the wagon around Rossi. Big difference. But it's nice that you frame the debate in such a way: 'you think Yamaha would intentionally screw themselves?' Uhm that's not the premise at all.


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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem.
Haha, bro. I love it. This is a breathtaking statement, the sheer disconnected arrogance of it is fascinating; you don't even realize that its arrogant do you buddy? Listen to yourself, you concede Vinalez could be very fast on it, shit topped all the preseason tests and won the first two races Qatar, Argentina, and a third Le Mans to boot; BUT he didn't realize what a shitty bike it was because he was winning! He just didn't realize what a pig of a bike was under him, eh J4? He had no "previous reference" that the Yamaha was doomed! Holy shit, dude you got me rolling here.

Newsflash, it was designed with Rossi's input period. Therefore as logic goes, Mav took Rossi's 'flawed/doomed' bike and beat everybody with it UNTIL...Rossi started to whine, bitch, complain it wasn't a winner, change this, change that, the tires don't work for me, the snowball started to roll.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.
Bullshit, Honda and Ducati suddenly started to make progress from the unintended consequences of Dorna's Mishitlin "democracy", specifically Marquez and Dovi's hard braking styles. The tire they reestated was a boom for these two riders (not their factories) a total unintended consequence of the tire coup they tried to introduce at Argentina. When Michelin were grilled about the possibilities of this tire showing up to COTA he was a forthcoming as a politician on camera. Gotta wonder why Vinalez crashed out of COTA and later said 'I can't really give you the reason, i will then get an email' (paraphrasing). What can't you tell us Mav? J4, eliminate these two (Marc/Dovi) wins, the results are their factories would have a grand total of ZERO wins, that's all you need to know about their machine's progress. But they don't compete in a bubble, and a flawed Honda is better than a flawed Ducati, and a flawed Yamaha can still win if those blue flags aren't waved like in Assen. Honda and Ducati didn't start developing the space shuttle buddy, because nobody other than these two have won on their respective machines! Shit, if anything both Yamaha factory riders have been victorious this year unlike the other two manufactures that you claim developed their machines past Yamaha. The Mishitlin has far more to do with the ebbs and flows of Yamaha's development buddy, and its because they and Dorna were as usual, hard up to get Rossi back to winning...al all expense. We have no reference because Dorna staged a vote to rid the 06 tire for Rossi's, he gets his tire and is no better off, his teammate, who is on record against said tire tanks, their rival Honda is handed the championship.

You crack me up J4. I love to see you posting.
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Last edited by Jumkie; November 7th, 2017 at 04:47 PM.
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November 7th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #20
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No not intentionally, but rather unintended consequence of circling the wagon around Rossi. Big difference. But it's nice that you frame the debate in such a way: 'you think Yamaha would intentionally screw themselves?' Uhm that's not the premise at all.




Haha, bro. I love it. This is a breathtaking statement, the sheer disconnected arrogance of it is fascinating; you don't even realize that its arrogant do you buddy? Listen to yourself, you concede Vinalez could be very fast on it, shit topped all the preseason tests and won the first two races Qatar, Argentina, and a third Le Mans to boot; BUT he didn't realize what a shitty bike it was because he was winning! He just didn't realize what a pig of a bike was under him, eh J4? He had no "previous reference" that the Yamaha was doomed! Holy shit, dude you got me rolling here.

Newsflash, it was designed with Rossi's input period. Therefore as logic goes, Mav took Rossi's 'flawed/doomed' bike and beat everybody with it UNTIL...Rossi started to whine, bitch, complain it wasn't a winner, change this, change that, the tires don't work for me, the snowball started to roll.




Bullshit, Honda and Ducati suddenly started to make progress from the unintended consequences of Dorna's Mishitlin "democracy", specifically Marquez and Dovi's hard braking styles. The tire they reestated was a boom for these two riders (not their factories) a total unintended consequence of the tire coup they tried to introduce at Argentina. When Michelin were grilled about the possibilities of this tire showing up to COTA he was a forthcoming as a politician on camera. Gotta wonder why Vinalez crashed out of COTA and later said 'I can't really give you the reason, i will then get an email' (paraphrasing). What can't you tell us Mav? J4, eliminate these two (Marc/Dovi) wins, the results are their factories would have a grand total of ZERO wins, that's all you need to know about their machine's progress. But they don't compete in a bubble, and a flawed Honda is better than a flawed Ducati, and a flawed Yamaha can still win if those blue flags aren't waved like in Assen. Honda and Ducati didn't start developing the space shuttle buddy, because nobody other than these two have won on their respective machines! Shit, if anything both Yamaha factory riders have been victorious this year unlike the other two manufactures that you claim developed their machines past Yamaha. The Mishitlin has far more to do with the ebbs and flows of Yamaha's development buddy, and its because they and Dorna were as usual, hard up to get Rossi back to winning...al all expense. We have no reference because Dorna staged a vote to rid the 06 tire for Rossi's, he gets his tire and is no better off, his teammate, who is on record against said tire tanks, their rival Honda is handed the championship.

You crack me up J4. I love to see you posting.
I said the day they reintroduced the 70 that Rossi just handed the title to Marquez. I still believe it was Rossi’s intention to fuck his runaway teammate and a shot in the dark that maybe it would turn the tide in his favor. Not for the championship, but to save him the embarrassment of trying to explain how some kid jumped on his baby and beat his ass to a pulp with it. Rossi knows by now that he simply cannot beat this lineup over a season so he dug deep into the playbook for a Hail Mary . Marquez intercepted it and ran it all the way back to probable title.
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