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November 13th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo View Post
I'd suggest you just keep your opinions to yourself.
So this mapping is only a suggestion, not a rule right?
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November 13th, 2017, 09:13 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I bow to your engineering expertise of course, particularly given I have none, but my understanding was that the 2004 engine was the first 4 stroke premier class racing engine Yamaha designed from the ground up/with a clean sheet for the new class as Hondaís famous V5 990 engine was, with previous engines cobbled together from pre-existing engines designed before the 990 class was extant.
(EDIT Having looked it up on Wiki I do stand to be corrected and probably believed something posted by an anti-Rossi poster on another forum. What I perhaps recalled was that they reputedly more or less put the 4 stroke engine in the old 500 chassis initially, so the 2004 bike in general was a design entirely purposed for the 4 stroke 990 formula.

They did drastically re- design the engine for 2004 to pretty much what has continued since in terms of screamer vs Big Bang, valves etc as you are no doubt aware).
I only asked because it seemed a strange statement, but your clarification is appreciated. Iím pretty certain the original M1 was clean sheet, but heavily compromised (fitting carbies for example...). They (and everyone else) underestimated how good the Honda was going to be.
As for 500 chassis etc, spot on. The RCV seemed far more holistically designed
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November 17th, 2017, 12:26 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
Look guys, everybody at Yamaha were sure they got the 2017 bike perfect because Vinales was so fast on it, early on. Rossi struggled and complained that the bike felt strangely understeering, but of course nobody paid attention. That is, until Jerez. They worried for the first time. Then, when the problem reiterated, they tried to solve it but got into confusion, with some help from Michelin's inconsistency and from the feedback offered by their two factory riders.

Yes, because the two riders they have now have very different styles. With Lorenzo and Rossi, Yamaha had parallel feedback that made sense. The two knew what they wanted -- basically the same kind of bike, that was a good common base adjustable to their personal preferences via setup changes. Fine. But now, they have Vinales who is a purely instinctive rider, point and shoot style. He can tell whether he feels fine with the bike or not, but not much more.

Rossi is a corner speed rider who has become more and more analytical as he grows old. He needs the bike in a certain precise way. So probably he gives even too much feedback. But what he says doesn't match with his teammate's feedback, so engineers have a problem. And when engineers compare the two riders' subjective feedback with hard data, they have three things that do not match. So what happens? They go their own way, and Yamaha is becoming more of an engineer's bike as a result, and less of a rider's bike.

The 2016 bike issue: Rossi says it felt fine, but it had the problem of wasting the rear tire before the end of a race. Remember? Now, Zarco is so fast on the 2016 bike because he is the best at managing the Michelin tires. (By the way, he is a French rider who rides for a French team. Vive la France!) Great also for Dorna's business in France.

Interesting notes: the winner of Valencia 2017 was slower than the winner of Valencia 2016 by 20 seconds. Rossi was slower than himself by 15 seconds Similar weather and track conditions. The two factory Yamahas used 2016 frames, courtesy of Tech3: Rossi said it felt better, but he was slower by 15 seconds compared to his 2016 race.

So the tires must have changed really a lot, and Yamaha are those suffering the most. With the lonely exception of Zarco. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops.
Good post, thanks.
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