MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum

Like Tree69Likes
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
November 13th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #181
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
From: Earth

Posts: 1,756
Likes: 713

I Ride: Your mom on most days.
Originally Posted by Theo View Post
I'd suggest you just keep your opinions to yourself.
So this mapping is only a suggestion, not a rule right?
synn is offline  
November 13th, 2017, 09:13 PM   #182
Dr No's Avatar
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Crab Key

Posts: 2,994
Likes: 726

Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I bow to your engineering expertise of course, particularly given I have none, but my understanding was that the 2004 engine was the first 4 stroke premier class racing engine Yamaha designed from the ground up/with a clean sheet for the new class as Hondaís famous V5 990 engine was, with previous engines cobbled together from pre-existing engines designed before the 990 class was extant.
(EDIT Having looked it up on Wiki I do stand to be corrected and probably believed something posted by an anti-Rossi poster on another forum. What I perhaps recalled was that they reputedly more or less put the 4 stroke engine in the old 500 chassis initially, so the 2004 bike in general was a design entirely purposed for the 4 stroke 990 formula.

They did drastically re- design the engine for 2004 to pretty much what has continued since in terms of screamer vs Big Bang, valves etc as you are no doubt aware).
I only asked because it seemed a strange statement, but your clarification is appreciated. Iím pretty certain the original M1 was clean sheet, but heavily compromised (fitting carbies for example...). They (and everyone else) underestimated how good the Honda was going to be.
As for 500 chassis etc, spot on. The RCV seemed far more holistically designed
Dr No is offline  
November 17th, 2017, 12:26 PM   #183
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
From: Australia

Posts: 1,523
Likes: 454

I Ride: R6
Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
Look guys, everybody at Yamaha were sure they got the 2017 bike perfect because Vinales was so fast on it, early on. Rossi struggled and complained that the bike felt strangely understeering, but of course nobody paid attention. That is, until Jerez. They worried for the first time. Then, when the problem reiterated, they tried to solve it but got into confusion, with some help from Michelin's inconsistency and from the feedback offered by their two factory riders.

Yes, because the two riders they have now have very different styles. With Lorenzo and Rossi, Yamaha had parallel feedback that made sense. The two knew what they wanted -- basically the same kind of bike, that was a good common base adjustable to their personal preferences via setup changes. Fine. But now, they have Vinales who is a purely instinctive rider, point and shoot style. He can tell whether he feels fine with the bike or not, but not much more.

Rossi is a corner speed rider who has become more and more analytical as he grows old. He needs the bike in a certain precise way. So probably he gives even too much feedback. But what he says doesn't match with his teammate's feedback, so engineers have a problem. And when engineers compare the two riders' subjective feedback with hard data, they have three things that do not match. So what happens? They go their own way, and Yamaha is becoming more of an engineer's bike as a result, and less of a rider's bike.

The 2016 bike issue: Rossi says it felt fine, but it had the problem of wasting the rear tire before the end of a race. Remember? Now, Zarco is so fast on the 2016 bike because he is the best at managing the Michelin tires. (By the way, he is a French rider who rides for a French team. Vive la France!) Great also for Dorna's business in France.

Interesting notes: the winner of Valencia 2017 was slower than the winner of Valencia 2016 by 20 seconds. Rossi was slower than himself by 15 seconds Similar weather and track conditions. The two factory Yamahas used 2016 frames, courtesy of Tech3: Rossi said it felt better, but he was slower by 15 seconds compared to his 2016 race.

So the tires must have changed really a lot, and Yamaha are those suffering the most. With the lonely exception of Zarco. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops.
Good post, thanks.
Keshav likes this.
RCV600RR is online now  

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

woes, yamahas

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Dani overtake both Yamahas? BarryMachine MotoGP 9 July 18th, 2016 03:22 AM
the year i was born! yamahas 1st foray in gp racing! frosty58 MotoGP 7 May 29th, 2010 01:20 PM
Pedrosa chassis woes Talpa MotoGP 77 May 4th, 2010 12:30 AM
Stiggy to run Yamahas? mylexicon World Superbike 1 September 3rd, 2009 04:18 PM

Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed

Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.