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November 1st, 2017, 08:46 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Hodgson you say ............


Jack is still right
Speaking of fake ass Hodgsonofabitch, Gaz, can you find me a streamable of Jorge Lorenzo's fake almost crash?

I'd like to caption it with this fake ass quote:

"I pushed hard but in the last few laps I was in a bit of crisis with the tyres, especially the front, and had a few scary moments in some corners. It wasn’t the right time to do anything stupid and when I almost crashed at Turn 15 and Andrea passed me I realized that I wasn’t going to be able to fight for the win."

"In this weekend Andrea has always been faster and I’m pleased for the team for this first 1-2 win of the season, because it means we’re working really well.” Jorge Pinocchio


Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman View Post

Anyone witness this? Yes/no? Team orders? I remember seeing Edwards ride shot gun for Rossi plenty of times. Edwards coulda woulda shoulda won those races. But he didn’t, and the fact is Lorenzo didn’t even ride shotgun for Dovi. The fact is he made things even more difficult for Dovi. He forced Dovi to push harder than he really needed to. Revisit, Lorenzo made the better start, got to the front first. Dovi has to dispense with Marquez the alien, then Zarco who has nothing to lose and is going all out. Dovi does this. He then closes the gap to Lorenzo, in the process pulling away from Zarco. The pace is too hot for Marquez he decides to play it safe, there’s a championship on the line.

Neither Zarco and more critically Lorenzo have any such inclination. Lorenzo especially has nothing to loose and goes all out. Fastest laps and pulling away from Zarco easily. I assume he was taking plenty of risk in doing so, Zarco is no slouch a balls out rider wanting a win. Who’s that guy behind Lorenzo? Oh right it’s the non alien Dovi. Let’s refer to him from now on as not the contender pretender but simply ‘the anomoly’.

As Lorenzo reals out fastest laps and pulls away the anomoly goes with him while Zarco can’t. I’m assuming the anomoly is risking plenty by doing this, hell how far are they ahead of alien Marquez? Ok I’m team boss. Send the message to Lorenzo, that’s Dovi numb nuts you could both crash any second so slow the fuck down, pull aside and let Dovi go. It doesn’t happen that way folks.

I was sitting there watching thinking shit they are miles in front and Lorenzo is going to throw it down the road any second. I was praying Dovi wouldn’t crash trying to stay with him, which btw he had to do. Sure enough Lorenzo nearly does crash, Dovi makes the move, to me it’s too soon but anyway he does it and pulls away. I watch Dovi braking extremely late at the end of the first straight and run a little wide a couple of times and again I think he’s really going for it please don’t crash. He doesn’t and the anomoly miraculously wins yet again. Thanks to team orders? That would have to be the dumbest riskiest team order strategy I’ve ever seen, they both could have either crashed or destroyed the tires but yeah I suppose it’s possibly the dreaded masterminded map 8 conspiracy theory strategy to steal Marquez’s championship.

You know what, Marquez was lucky. He was bloody lucky there weren’t another 5 bikes in front of him like PI because he was miles behind. Dovi the anomoly on the weapon Ducati = unlucky, Marquez the alien with one arm: lucky
Brilliant as usual Bird.

Last edited by Jumkie; November 1st, 2017 at 08:53 AM.
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November 1st, 2017, 09:05 AM   #152
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Davide Tardozzi reveals Ducati spoke to both its riders “about what can happen”; “It was obvious Jorge thought about the factory, team and Ducati.”

MotoGP

Ducati spoke to both Andrea Dovizioso and Jorge Lorenzo ahead of the crucial Malaysian MotoGP bow to try and ensure the Italian’s title chances remained open until Valencia, team boss Davide Tardozzi has revealed.

Tardozzi said he was delighted with the attitude of both of his riders during – and after – the conversation, and felt it was clear that Lorenzo rode the 20-lap race in Malaysia with “the factory, the team and Ducati” in mind.

It was a day in which the Bologna factory clinched its first one-two of the season, with Dovizioso’s win setting up a tense title decided at the Ricardo Tormo Circuit in mid-November.
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November 1st, 2017, 09:51 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Mike, isn't it' 'possible' Honda told pole man Pedrosa, the fastest man in qualifying, to let Marc have the position and not race Marc aggressively for position? Is it 'possible' they asked their satellite Honda riders, two of which are "rain specialist" not to race Marc aggressively in the event the HRC contender struggled? It IS in fact "possible". Does anyone here doubt Honda may have discussed various scenarios, they'd be stupid if they didn’t? Moreover, it would be uncharacteristic if Honda didn’t discuss it especially given the influence and shrewd way Marc's garage wields power and plans in great detail races in sketchy conditions!

So why do you think this notion described above to 'help' Marc has been thoroughly and absolutely dismissed? Why weren't Pedrosa and Rossi relentlessly grilled about helping their teammates like Lorenzo, Petrucci, and other Ducati riders? Is there an element of disrespect, double standard, and thematic inconsistency? It hasn't been lost on me this narrative that poor Marc has soldiered valiantly on the awful RCV, poor alien club member inductee Vinalez hampered by Yamaha's dropped ball development, whilst simultaneously Dovi has been gifted the contender's role as a result of a perfect storm and the superior "advantages" of a general accepted fickle idiosyncratic capricious machine that nobody other than Dovi has won on this year. This narrative isn't just a theme advanced by the Hack Oxleys and Neil Hodges of the world, but it's right here on our forum! Ironically, Dovi is the type cast this forum would support and back.

This forum is great about pointing out skewed inconsistencies on how riders are treated, from reactions regarding our sport, from pointing out commentators and journalist lopsided vacillations over Rossi’s comeback as "Biblical proportion" whilst Jack Miller's is brushed aside with barely a mention, to the epic debacle of 2015, the coup to reintroduce previously withdrawn tires and the imbalances of influence by race direction which admitted to considering the championship rather than its paramount task of safety when refusing to black flag, to the way journalists cowardly tip-toe around the important riders and lay into the less important ones, grilling and asking about their vulnerabilities. PS points out inconsistencies, no wonder it's not a favorite space for journalists. Yet, the great exception this year has been this persistent theme that disparages great guy Dovi; who has stepped up his game, won 6 races on a historically career killing machine, whilst paired up with great riders that haven’t matched Dovi's extraordinary achievement. The narrative goes: it's not Dovi, it's Ducati combined with Honda/Yamaha's failures.

Petrucci was asked repeatedly if he'd help Dovi, replying it would look "bad for the sport" if he pulled aside, no follow up question in sight to point out he almost committed suicide to get out of Rossi's way at Valencia 15. These questions are asked repeatedly in front of Andrea Dovizioso, I cringe every time because I find it disrespectful. Yet here we are on this forum engaging in a similar imbalanced inconsistency when it comes to Dovi vs Marquez. Marquez this year has been given the benefit of doubt to such an extent its bopper territory whilst Dovi is being treated like, I dare say Nicky Hayden, someone that just doesn't belong in this position because __________ (insert bullshit here). Oh I'm sure I'll get people to respond and say, I respect Dovi, I like Dovi, he's such a great guy, like a fat chick at the prom, Dovi's got a great personality, and say I think Dovi's had a fantastic season bla bla bla, but but but....he's in this position because the Ducati is a rocket ship, the aero package is like the Concord (or like a dragster's parachute,depending on convenience), the tires suit Ducati, the Honda is atrocious, the Yamaha has been developed by monkeys, the Yamaha (despite getting the #70 tires for one of the riders) just haven't provided the "grip" because Ducati have a "better" and more experience crew with the CPU. It's like all the top JPL-NASA Space-X data electronics engineer's were hired by Ducati to give them a supposed advantage whilst Honda's army of engineers have patched on Nintendo 64 to the RCV. It's this theme of disrespecting Dovi in favor of Ducati, this machine that has been supposedly spawned by alien technology never before seen by mankind, and they handed it to Dovi, quite possibly riding it via remote control. Dovi won because Lorenzo pulled over from a guaranteed win whilst leaving half his knee slider on the soaking tarmac as a protest.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Pedrosa took pole in 100 degree dry conditions, race was wet . Next
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November 1st, 2017, 12:26 PM   #154
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Lorenzo enjoyed a spell out front after passing early leader Johann Zarco on the ninth lap, but soon received a dashboard message - 'Suggested Mapping 8' - that the team later admitted was a coded instruction to let Dovizioso through


Lorenzo said he only realised he had been ordered to let Dovizioso go once he was reuinted with this crew in parc ferme, but insisted he was aware of the points situation and did not need specifically telling to allow Dovizioso to take the win.

"Honestly, I didn't see anything," said Lorenzo when asked directly what the message meant.
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November 1st, 2017, 02:08 PM   #155
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What next Pov, you're gonna tell us water is wet? In the words of 33Coupe, "Nobody is arguing team orders genius."

Normally when one says something untenable, it's best to concede, second best is to stay quite, for all the times you preached taking responsibility and owning up and not being a fruitcake flake or whatever the new code words, you're doing the typical thing a person does when they've stuck foot in mouth, refuse to give in on a lost arguement. Given JP is liking your post, I'll include him in my reply.

I don't believe you missed the message from me citing 'pole man' Pedrosa moving over for Marc, shit I even spelled out tge sarcasm. Therefore, you're pointing out the conditions trying to be clever, as I I wasn't aware only illustrates your clutching at straws. I mocked the notion of Pedrosa's pole in regards to Marc and your brilliant response is to point out the difference in conditions thinking it was clever? No shit bro, hence why I mocked the notion of pole man Pedrosa moving over for Marc. How on earth did you think it was a gotcha "next" moment?

Here's what's even more crazy, you point out the dry condition in qual (as if we weren't all already aware) yet have no problem guaranteeing us wins in the RAIN? This makes sense in your mind and those thinking your post was clever? Pov, you point out the difference qual conditions, yet you made the ridiculous call that Lorenzo pulled over on an almost crash that left considerable knee slider on the surface. Let me spell it out for you guys, it IS more absurd to claim Lorenzo pulled over nearly going on the deck in the RAIN as it is to make guaranteed conclusions from Pedrosa's pole position in the dry. It's fascinating that you think you made some clever point about Pedrosa's pole conditions whilst simultaneously guaranteeing wins in the RAIN. Maybe it was raining only on Lorenzo during qualifying? Newsflash, the conditions were the same for Pedrosa and Lorenzo during qualifying.

I don't mean to dazzle you with words Pov, my friend, but you and those liking your ridiculous takes fucked up on this one.


Which is more ridiculous Pov/JP? Pointing out Pedrosa's qualifying in regards to team orders (a point I mocked directed at both of you, with obvious sarcasm, even spelling it out for you by saying "no, that doesn't sound ridiculous".) Or, declaring Lorenzo pulled over on a near crash, 6 laps to go, in the RAIN?


But you Pov doubled down, declaring Lorenzo gave up a guaranteed win!

Nobody is disputing team orders Pov, so you posting a quote by Tardozzi admitting team orders is simply trying to change the argument 'again'. But you have to try and change the point of dispute because you can not advance your untenable position, that being, Lorenzo pulled over from a guaranteed win. I still can't believe you Pov, a man of your insight into races, would say such a laughable thing.

Look below Pov, I posted we already established Ducati had team orders, that's not the dispute. The question is, did team orders mean jack shit when Dovi won outright? Did Honda team orders mean jack shit for Marc? The answer is no. It's like Honda having team orders with Pedrosa or any other rider down to Tito Robot, uhm hey Tito, don't pass Marc. Uhm, ok. Newsflash Pov, that's a moot point!

Lorenzo almost crashed, he admitted it, he also admitted he couldn't keep pace with Dovi, and he gave you a reason, tire crisis, and as far as team orders to pull over, he was unaware of the message, which again is a moot point. As moot as other Honda riders letting Marc have 4th.

Here is my previous quote, pay special attention to the sentence where I make you aware Ducati team orders were not a secret. Are you going to find another Tardozzi quote to tell us Ducati had team orders now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post

Ducati had admitted they spoke about various scenarios, we knew this already, but the need never actually materialized because Dovi managed the race win against Lorenzo in the same way he managed it against Marquez, except the last lap duel was done and dusted on an almost crash by Lorenzo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
... I know Ducati discussed team orders, i said it in my posts, scroll up, you're saying this is precisely why Lorenzo "pulled over" and "gave up a win" that's the bullshit. Since when did wins become guaranteed with 6 laps to go? Dovi's MO all season has been to get stronger the closing stages, Lorenzo has been to drop off and stabilize. .
Who was riding the GP17, Tardozzi or Lorenzo?

Lorenzo said he had a "crisis with tires", "especially the front", and "almost crashed" and confirmed "Dovi was faster all weekend." But that's not enough for you because as you say, he pulled over from a guaranteed win. You bring up team orders as if this is relevant, except Lorenzo said he was unaware of any coded message until he returned to parc ferme.

Povol: "look, they had team orders" yeah, we knew that already buddy, now try to argue what we're actually disputing rather than repeating the same old irrelevant point my friend.




If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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November 1st, 2017, 02:30 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
Pedrosa took pole in 100 degree dry conditions, race was wet . Next
Ah, you got me, that's real "clever" of you buddy. If only someone had already made this point...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post

HONDA TEAM ORDERS!

Ok,let me declare now: Marc's 4th position was a gift of Honda team orders, to extend the championship to Valencia; Pedrosa chose to slow down from his pole position and let Marc past. Pole man Pedrosa was "guaranteed" his FIRST wet win of the season against his teammate Marc who's MO was to best Dani all year, notwithstanding, this was the exception...the "proof": Pedrosa sat on pole position. The precedent: Pedrosa has helped a teammate get by before, which in fact Pedrosa did at Malaysia.

No, that doesn't sound ridiculous.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Pov, what do you suppose is the message of that last bit with the smirk face?

Next


What's fascinating is you point out the futility of making a projection of performance from dry condition to wet, yet here you are, declaring a guaranteed win in wet conditions. No, that's not contradictory. (Sarcasm)

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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November 1st, 2017, 02:38 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Speaking of fake ass Hodgsonofabitch, Gaz, can you find me a streamable of Jorge Lorenzo's fake almost crash?

I'd like to caption it with this fake ass quote:

"I pushed hard but in the last few laps I was in a bit of crisis with the tyres, especially the front, and had a few scary moments in some corners. It wasn’t the right time to do anything stupid and when I almost crashed at Turn 15 and Andrea passed me I realized that I wasn’t going to be able to fight for the win."

"In this weekend Andrea has always been faster and I’m pleased for the team for this first 1-2 win of the season, because it means we’re working really well.” Jorge Pinocchio

Ask and ye shall receive - https://streamable.com/lukm2
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November 1st, 2017, 03:00 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Ah, you got me, that's real "clever" of you buddy. If only someone had already made this point...







Pov, what do you suppose is the message of that last bit with the smirk face?

Next


What's fascinating is you point out the futility of making a projection of performance from dry condition to wet, yet here you are, declaring a guaranteed win in wet conditions. No, that's not contradictory. (Sarcasm)

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Chill bro, your going to hurt your finger. I'm not sure what you are looking for, maybe for Lorenzo to contact you in person to explain what went down. You act as if Lorenzo letting Dovi by somehow cheapens his season, I certainly don't think that, it was the right thing to do, it's a team sport
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November 1st, 2017, 04:06 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
Chill bro, your going to hurt your finger. I'm not sure what you are looking for, maybe for Lorenzo to contact you in person to explain what went down. You act as if Lorenzo letting Dovi by somehow cheapens his season, I certainly don't think that, it was the right thing to do, it's a team sport

Lol, you funny Pov, Jumkie's head will explode when he reads this.
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November 1st, 2017, 04:11 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
Chill bro, your going to hurt your finger. I'm not sure what you are looking for, maybe for Lorenzo to contact you in person to explain what went down. You act as if Lorenzo letting Dovi by somehow cheapens his season, I certainly don't think that, it was the right thing to do, it's a team sport
Hahaha Pov, in the indomitable words of Ham Porter, "You're killing me smalls."

Well then, what do you want? Pedrosa to call you from his yacht at tell you personally he let Marc have 4th after setting pole? You act as if Pedro letting Marc by cheapens his season, as you refuse to acknowledge it. I certainly don't think that, it was right in 06, still all right in 2017. Pedrosa is a team player to gift the position to Marc. It's like you say, a team sport.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
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