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September 28th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #71
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To call Ali a draft dodger was always ludicrous. He never would've gone to war even if he had been drafted and would've had a similar set up to Joe Louis. He lost almost everything to stand up for what he believed in and as a result we probably never saw his best years. What he did took far more courage than if he hadve just stepped forward when his name was called.

It's easy to sit back and during his second career he took too many punches to be GOAT but not many fighters have most 3 1/2 years of their prime and gone to solidify their place in history as the best ever in their division while in clear decline from what they once were.
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September 28th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
In that time Ali took a lot of heat "me included" for being a draft dodger but as time went by and you learn more and more about the inner workings of the Viet Nam war he was forgiven. Now that bitch Jane Fonda, I will always wish the worst on her till the day I die.
My qualms with Ali have nothing to do with Vietnam. I actually commend him for standing up against an unjust war. My issues with him relate to his Nation of Islam bullshit and his absolutely horrific treatment of Joe Frazier who helped Ali financially when he was banned from boxing. Imagining being helped by someone financially, and then the media, dog whistle and racist tactics against an honorable man who did nothing to you? Frazier went to his grave hating Ali and bragging that he beat Ali so badly in Manila, that Ali's health deterioration was likely due to that beating. That to me was such a black mark against Ali for me personally. I hold Rossi accountable for reprehensible behavior, and I do the same for other figures who have done equally reprehensible shit.
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September 28th, 2017, 08:09 AM   #73
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Disagree. That title is Casey Stoner's. When Marquez does that on a Ducati, them we can say he's equal to Casey.

Log on to youtube, watch some old footage of Casey.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
The 'frameless' Ducati (whether or not the headstock was trellis or CF) was far harder to ride than the Gigi bike. That ate riders' souls.
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September 28th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
My qualms with Ali have nothing to do with Vietnam. I actually commend him for standing up against an unjust war. My issues with him relate to his Nation of Islam bullshit and his absolutely horrific treatment of Joe Frazier who helped Ali financially when he was banned from boxing. Imagining being helped by someone financially, and then the media, dog whistle and racist tactics against an honorable man who did nothing to you? Frazier went to his grave hating Ali and bragging that he beat Ali so badly in Manila, that Ali's health deterioration was likely due to that beating. That to me was such a black mark against Ali for me personally. I hold Rossi accountable for reprehensible behavior, and I do the same for other figures who have done equally reprehensible shit.
I was mostly a big Ali fan, particularly the Foreman fight, "When We Were Kings" etc. but didn't realise about the Frazier stuff till near Frazier's death, far from admirable. Not big on the Nation of islam either.

Can't in all conscience follow boxing at all now.
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September 28th, 2017, 09:56 AM   #75
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In fairness, he renounced the Nation of Islam stuff.
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September 28th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #76
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I was mostly a big Ali fan, particularly the Foreman fight, "When We Were Kings" etc. but didn't realise about the Frazier stuff till near Frazier's death, far from admirable. Not big on the Nation of islam either.

Can't in all conscience follow boxing at all now.
The Frazier stuff was disgusting.

I disagree about the latter, but do understand your position.
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September 29th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
My qualms with Ali have nothing to do with Vietnam. I actually commend him for standing up against an unjust war. My issues with him relate to his Nation of Islam bullshit and his absolutely horrific treatment of Joe Frazier who helped Ali financially when he was banned from boxing. Imagining being helped by someone financially, and then the media, dog whistle and racist tactics against an honorable man who did nothing to you? Frazier went to his grave hating Ali and bragging that he beat Ali so badly in Manila, that Ali's health deterioration was likely due to that beating. That to me was such a black mark against Ali for me personally. I hold Rossi accountable for reprehensible behavior, and I do the same for other figures who have done equally reprehensible shit.
Whatever I thought of him as a boxer, all that Nation of Islam stuff was bullshit. I've always thought that his devotion to the group was sincere, but was the product of a not very sophisticated young man, who gravitated toward a group of likewise simple-minded types who had a very poor grasp on the meaning of Islam - but needed some kind of organization to be a part of, in a deeply divided culture, where black people had good reason to be frightened and angry; wanting to have a strong militant voice, rather than be mowed down and abused the way members of the Christian-church approved organizations were.

His argument that no Vietnamese ever encroached on his rights the way white Americans did, whilst very much true, somehow rang a bit false at the time, but then again, I wasn't terribly sophisticated then either.
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September 29th, 2017, 05:17 PM   #78
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Whatever I thought of him as a boxer, all that Nation of Islam stuff was bullshit. I've always thought that his devotion to the group was sincere, but was the product of a not very sophisticated young man, who gravitated toward a group of likewise simple-minded types who had a very poor grasp on the meaning of Islam - but needed some kind of organization to be a part of, in a deeply divided culture, where black people had good reason to be frightened and angry; wanting to have a strong militant voice, rather than be mowed down and abused the way members of the Christian-church approved organizations were.

His argument that no Vietnamese ever encroached on his rights the way white Americans did, whilst very much true, somehow rang a bit false at the time, but then again, I wasn't terribly sophisticated then either.
I completely agree with this. America back then was very different to America now.
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October 3rd, 2017, 09:40 AM   #79
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Looks like Michael Doohan shares my opinion regarding Marc Marquez and Andrea Dovizioso.

Quote:
Grand Prix motorcycling legend Mick Doohan reckons Marc Marquez is "on another level" compared to his MotoGP title rivals.

Defending champion Marquez had a relatively slow start to the 2017 season, dropping 37 points off the championship lead after six races.

However, strong subsequent form, including four wins and seven podium finishes in the last eight races, has elevated the Honda rider to a 16-point lead in the standings over nearest rival Andrea Dovizioso.

Doohan, who was unbeatable in the 500cc motorcycle world championship between 1994 and 1998, considers Marquez better than the rest of the field.

"I think he is too strong at the moment, he is above his opponents," said Doohan.

"He is on another level. He is as good as [Valentino] Rossi - he is strong and confident, has a good bike, and gets better at races where he suffered last year.

"Marc keeps building up his already big confidence. His advantage in the championship is not very big, but he will be able to increase it in the next races."

Doohan reckons that, unlike Marquez, main rival Dovizioso is not able to "dominate" the top riders in MotoGP.

"Dovi is not in the same position of level as Marc," he added. "He has been fighting with the top riders for many years, but I don't know if he can really dominate them.

"But maybe I am wrong and Dovizioso will show it to me."

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...doohan-960566/
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October 4th, 2017, 10:53 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Looks like Michael Doohan shares my opinion regarding Marc Marquez and Andrea Dovizioso.
Oh, Doohan doesn't think Dovi is a contender? I have heard that somewhere, before.
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