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September 23rd, 2017, 06:48 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
For those who were sorry to see Petrucci miss out on his maiden grand prix victory, to that I say, good, fuck him. Don’t forget this is the guy who rode off the circuit to cede position to Rossi at Valencia ’15.-JPS
He wasn't the only one, half the field just moved over to let him past.
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September 24th, 2017, 08:01 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Sure, of course it is logically possible for both Jumkie and Rossi to be conspiracy theorists.

My point, not as strongly in regard to you as several others, is that it seems disproportionate to be so upset by a few people on an obscure internet forum having anti-Rossi views given his own career long vendettas against other riders very much in the wider world, and particularly his own recent conspiracy theories against his 2 most recent major rivals, hardly undistinguished bike riders themselves, promulgated to the whole world on the very broad platform available to him, and also in the face of opinion on most media including most other internet forums still running very much Rossi's way.
I can understand anti-Rossi views. He's quite a ruthless competitor, but I more object to the one-sided treatment that is becoming the norm here (not in your case, to be clear). By all means, criticise his poor behavior, but the campaign to portray him as a talentless fraud that competes on a grid single-mindedly stacked in his favour merits objection.

For the record, I'm not upset at all. I've probably made 30 posts in the last six months, on various topics. I only really raised the Rossi matter in the last month, given the volume of group-think I've seen on this matter - and the specific thread raising the question (i.e. this one).
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September 24th, 2017, 08:20 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
May have already read it (have seen a few where Nakamoto constantly talks about CS' use of little electronics and his throttle control ............ I have seen a lot of comments from Nakamoto who was, well 'infatuated' with CS and what he could do on a bike, much like the Preziosi, Gabbarini of the world. When you see/read from that level it is often interesting to see their comparisons although I do always read with a taint of 'who is their current rider' if they mention that rider as you would not want to risk harming the working relationship

IMO here but it is a shame that relationship ended the way it did
Who knows? Maybe it's CS's purist attitude toward electronics that kept him from winning more races. Perhaps Marquez is just lucky enough to be of a generation, that don't care - just want to win.
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September 24th, 2017, 08:25 AM   #134
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Sure - but I don't sit here claiming that I have a monopoly on the truth. I have my views, I acknowledge when the evidence is strong, and I acknowledge when it's weak, and I acknowledge when it's imperfect.

Regarding Valencia 15, I happily admit that despite my view of Marc's riding at Valencia, I cannot be sure. I've set out my reasons for the view, and others have set out their reasons against. I think almost all of the reasons mentioned have some merit. I weigh certain reasons more heavily than others - hence my difference of opinion - but I never claim that others are wrong when the evidence is so imperfect and questionable on a point.

Regarding PI 2015, I think, beyond reasonable doubt, Rossi's claim was incorrect. However, I would not go so far as to say it's certainly incorrect, as:

- I haven't ridden 300 GPs like VR and can't entirely discount that he saw something on the bike that a layperson on TV can't; and
- I heard an anecdote, of questionable credibility, that Alzamora told Rossi after the PI race that MM was still upset about Argentina.

These, of course, are very weak reasons. As such, I cannot reasonably suggest that Rossi's claim was correct based on such weak reasons. Rather, I feel that all of the other - much more compelling - evidence from PI 2015 points to the fact that MM was riding normally.

But I try to adjust my conclusions for possible facts (appropriately weighted for veracity).

I never see Jumkie doing that when it comes to VR. He sits and rants for 10,000 words as if he were a prosecutor seeking a conviction. He'll never concede when his evidence is questionable, open to interpretation, or even opposed by other evidence. For those reasons, I caveat his theories accordingly.



The two matters aren't mutually exclusive. The fact of Rossi's poor behavior (or really, anyone's) does not excuse or somehow condition (at least what I consider) instances of Jumkie's conspiratorial bent. Each man is judged on his own conduct.
Some people just live to chase a boogey man. And when there is none, they invent one. It's the basis of most conspiracies which are at heart, always irrational; based on emotion and not much else.
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Last edited by Little Walter; September 24th, 2017 at 08:28 AM.
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September 24th, 2017, 08:44 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I can understand anti-Rossi views. He's quite a ruthless competitor, but I more object to the one-sided treatment that is becoming the norm here (not in your case, to be clear). By all means, criticise his poor behavior, but the campaign to portray him as a talentless fraud that competes on a grid single-mindedly stacked in his favour merits objection.

For the record, I'm not upset at all. I've probably made 30 posts in the last six months, on various topics. I only really raised the Rossi matter in the last month, given the volume of group-think I've seen on this matter - and the specific thread raising the question (i.e. this one).
Sure, he won all those titles because he was the best rider those years. I would have had no trouble acknowledging him if he had won in 2015 because Jorge was poor in an unusual number of wet races and MM kept throwing his bike down the road, their problem, not his.

I have pretty much the same attitude as Povol as far as his riding goes, I now see him as among/one of the greats rather than possibly placing him above the other greats of the sport at the end of the 2009 season.

I also agree with Povol that he is a manipulative prick off track, a view I have come to only relatively late, having previously blamed only the over the top element among his fans, and sympathise with Jumkie because I believe Hayden of whom I was a fan along with Stoner of whom I was a bigger fan didn't get appropriate recognition for their titles, quite the contrary in fact. The same fate seems to have overtaken Jorge whom I also came to admire. MM seems to be able to look after himself, and I suspect Rossi has only succeeded in increasing his determination.
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September 28th, 2017, 09:08 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Nakamoto reckons CS's throttle control was much better.

CS is better on exit, MM is better on entry.
Update:

MotoGP, Casey Stoner: "Non sono più nemico di Valentino Rossi"

Basically, Stoner suggests that Marquez is better on entry, and that he is stronger on exit.

Last edited by RCV600RR; September 29th, 2017 at 04:00 PM.
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