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September 22nd, 2017, 04:16 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you write about 10,000 words a week trashing Rossi - with respect, it's not normal.

Marquez has done some fairly lousy stuff too (which you used to write about at length, especially in 2013 when he was battling JL), but since your hatred for Rossi has intensified, you've decided to conveniently forget that aspect of his personality. I mean, the one-sided post you've authored above is quite strange to read...if you were serious about making a comparison, you'd of course mention Marc's promotion to Repsol Honda (that isn't favouritism?) after the rookie rule was scrapped, you'd mention his numerous infractions in MotoGP and Moto2 (e.g. Wilairot (which was borderline criminal), knocking off Corsi, running Luthi off at Qatar, JL at Jerez, Dani Pedrosa at Aragon, Espargaro at Catalunya, almost taking out the marshalls at Silverstone etc.

When you fail to mention these things, purport to write a list comparing Rossi's character with MM's (without mentioning some more obvious misconduct on MM's part), and exclusively write about the unadulterated evil of Rossi in striking black and white terms and with extraordinary volume, do you see why someone could consider your views to be more akin to be of someone motivated by hate, rather than of someone seeking to make a reasonable argument?

Gather the evidence for and against your argument. Weigh it, and make a conclusion on that basis. Don't conclude, then reverse-engineer the reasoning.
With respect, one man's reasonable speculation is another man's conspiracy theory, and you yourself have recently hypothesised in regard to how MM rode at Valencia 2015 with as much or less evidence as there is for most of what Jumkie contends, and also don't completely reject shenanigans by MM at PI 2015 even though you admit there is not much in the way of evidence for same.

As I have frequently argued, you or anyone else taking the likes of Jumkie to task for entertaining 'conspiracy theories' about Valentino fails for me on the score of proportionality given Rossi's own continuing refusal to resile from his own conspiracy theory, which he announced without evidence to the world press at large to the considerable real world detriment of 2 leading riders.
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September 22nd, 2017, 04:32 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you write about 10,000 words a week trashing Rossi - with respect, it's not normal.

Marquez has done some fairly lousy stuff too (which you used to write about at length, especially in 2013 when he was battling JL), but since your hatred for Rossi has intensified, you've decided to conveniently forget that aspect of his personality. I mean, the one-sided post you've authored above is quite strange to read...if you were serious about making a comparison, you'd of course mention Marc's promotion to Repsol Honda (that isn't favouritism?) after the rookie rule was scrapped, you'd mention his numerous infractions in MotoGP and Moto2 (e.g. Wilairot (which was borderline criminal), knocking off Corsi, running Luthi off at Qatar, JL at Jerez, Dani Pedrosa at Aragon, Espargaro at Catalunya, almost taking out the marshalls at Silverstone etc.

When you fail to mention these things, purport to write a list comparing Rossi's character with MM's (without mentioning some more obvious misconduct on MM's part), and exclusively write about the unadulterated evil of Rossi in striking black and white terms and with extraordinary volume, do you see why someone could consider your views to be more akin to be of someone motivated by hate, rather than of someone seeking to make a reasonable argument?

Gather the evidence for and against your argument. Weigh it, and make a conclusion on that basis. Don't conclude, then reverse-engineer the reasoning.
Jumkie was the one who dubbed MM "murder Marc', and was trenchant in his criticism of him at the time he richly deserved it, and called as I did for a very strong penalty for the Willairot incident. MM does seem to have matured from when he was a teenager however, and I would judge him as having been reckless and irresponsible rather than actively malignant; Jumkie called him 'somewhat autistic' which perhaps says it better

What is your excuse for Valentino, who at rising 39 has continued to wage off track vendettas against most if not all his significant rivals for his whole career, and now fairly clearly is fully complicit with an element of his fanbase in regard to same?
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September 22nd, 2017, 04:56 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
trashing Rossi - with respect, it's not normal.
See there you go ......

Boppers are incapable of seeing that rossi is trashing himself
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September 22nd, 2017, 07:31 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
With respect, one man's reasonable speculation is another man's conspiracy theory, and you yourself have recently hypothesised in regard to how MM rode at Valencia 2015 with as much or less evidence as there is for most of what Jumkie contends, and also don't completely reject shenanigans by MM at PI 2015 even though you admit there is not much in the way of evidence for same.
Sure - but I don't sit here claiming that I have a monopoly on the truth. I have my views, I acknowledge when the evidence is strong, and I acknowledge when it's weak, and I acknowledge when it's imperfect.

Regarding Valencia 15, I happily admit that despite my view of Marc's riding at Valencia, I cannot be sure. I've set out my reasons for the view, and others have set out their reasons against. I think almost all of the reasons mentioned have some merit. I weigh certain reasons more heavily than others - hence my difference of opinion - but I never claim that others are wrong when the evidence is so imperfect and questionable on a point.

Regarding PI 2015, I think, beyond reasonable doubt, Rossi's claim was incorrect. However, I would not go so far as to say it's certainly incorrect, as:

- I haven't ridden 300 GPs like VR and can't entirely discount that he saw something on the bike that a layperson on TV can't; and
- I heard an anecdote, of questionable credibility, that Alzamora told Rossi after the PI race that MM was still upset about Argentina.

These, of course, are very weak reasons. As such, I cannot reasonably suggest that Rossi's claim was correct based on such weak reasons. Rather, I feel that all of the other - much more compelling - evidence from PI 2015 points to the fact that MM was riding normally.

But I try to adjust my conclusions for possible facts (appropriately weighted for veracity).

I never see Jumkie doing that when it comes to VR. He sits and rants for 10,000 words as if he were a prosecutor seeking a conviction. He'll never concede when his evidence is questionable, open to interpretation, or even opposed by other evidence. For those reasons, I caveat his theories accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
As I have frequently argued, you or anyone else taking the likes of Jumkie to task for entertaining 'conspiracy theories' about Valentino fails for me on the score of proportionality given Rossi's own continuing refusal to resile from his own conspiracy theory, which he announced without evidence to the world press at large to the considerable real world detriment of 2 leading riders.
The two matters aren't mutually exclusive. The fact of Rossi's poor behavior (or really, anyone's) does not excuse or somehow condition (at least what I consider) instances of Jumkie's conspiratorial bent. Each man is judged on his own conduct.

Last edited by RCV600RR; September 22nd, 2017 at 07:34 PM.
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September 22nd, 2017, 07:37 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by BarryMachine View Post
See there you go ......

Boppers are incapable of seeing that rossi is trashing himself
Do you think it's normal and proportionate to write 10,000 words a week about VR? I find it borderline concerning, to be honest.

Anyway, I'm not sure why I'm a "bopper", all of a sudden. VR is just another man. I admire his riding skills, but I don't deify any motorcycle racer.

If you want to exchange views in a reasonable manner, I'm happy to engage. If you want to descend to mindless name calling, I'll have to pass. Cheers.

Last edited by RCV600RR; September 22nd, 2017 at 07:45 PM.
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September 22nd, 2017, 07:39 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
May have already read it (have seen a few where Nakamoto constantly talks about CS' use of little electronics and his throttle control ............ I have seen a lot of comments from Nakamoto who was, well 'infatuated' with CS and what he could do on a bike, much like the Preziosi, Gabbarini of the world. When you see/read from that level it is often interesting to see their comparisons although I do always read with a taint of 'who is their current rider' if they mention that rider as you would not want to risk harming the working relationship

IMO here but it is a shame that relationship ended the way it did
I found that the most interesting part: Nakamoto was praising Stoner so effusively in 2013, when MM was his new rider challenging for the title, and Stoner was at home fishing! That's what gave it more credence for me.
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September 22nd, 2017, 07:53 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Do you think it's normal and proportionate to write 10,000 words a week about VR? I find it borderline concerning, to be honest.

Anyway, I'm not sure why I'm a "bopper", all of a sudden. VR is just another man. I admire his riding skills, but I don't deify any motorcycle racer.
I dont give a rats arse how many words Jumkie writes ..... his best ever post are the one sentence post to me ..... past that and I zone out. But he can write all he likes ....

Bit of a shame you feel that folk that arent normal deserve derision just for the fact that they arent normal though. Many not normals have achieved many not normal things.


On the rossi thing ..... if rossi wants folk not to get upset about his behaviour ..... change it in the future .... dont try to change what occurred.
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September 22nd, 2017, 07:59 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by MdubSTYLIE View Post
Stoner could have been better on the breaks.
The last one? Where he took a long break?
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September 22nd, 2017, 11:42 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Sure - but I don't sit here claiming that I have a monopoly on the truth. I have my views, I acknowledge when the evidence is strong, and I acknowledge when it's weak, and I acknowledge when it's imperfect.

Regarding Valencia 15, I happily admit that despite my view of Marc's riding at Valencia, I cannot be sure. I've set out my reasons for the view, and others have set out their reasons against. I think almost all of the reasons mentioned have some merit. I weigh certain reasons more heavily than others - hence my difference of opinion - but I never claim that others are wrong when the evidence is so imperfect and questionable on a point.

Regarding PI 2015, I think, beyond reasonable doubt, Rossi's claim was incorrect. However, I would not go so far as to say it's certainly incorrect, as:

- I haven't ridden 300 GPs like VR and can't entirely discount that he saw something on the bike that a layperson on TV can't; and
- I heard an anecdote, of questionable credibility, that Alzamora told Rossi after the PI race that MM was still upset about Argentina.

These, of course, are very weak reasons. As such, I cannot reasonably suggest that Rossi's claim was correct based on such weak reasons. Rather, I feel that all of the other - much more compelling - evidence from PI 2015 points to the fact that MM was riding normally.

But I try to adjust my conclusions for possible facts (appropriately weighted for veracity).

I never see Jumkie doing that when it comes to VR. He sits and rants for 10,000 words as if he were a prosecutor seeking a conviction. He'll never concede when his evidence is questionable, open to interpretation, or even opposed by other evidence. For those reasons, I caveat his theories accordingly.



The two matters aren't mutually exclusive. The fact of Rossi's poor behavior (or really, anyone's) does not excuse or somehow condition (at least what I consider) instances of Jumkie's conspiratorial bent. Each man is judged on his own conduct.
Sure, of course it is logically possible for both Jumkie and Rossi to be conspiracy theorists.

My point, not as strongly in regard to you as several others, is that it seems disproportionate to be so upset by a few people on an obscure internet forum having anti-Rossi views given his own career long vendettas against other riders very much in the wider world, and particularly his own recent conspiracy theories against his 2 most recent major rivals, hardly undistinguished bike riders themselves, promulgated to the whole world on the very broad platform available to him, and also in the face of opinion on most media including most other internet forums still running very much Rossi's way.
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September 23rd, 2017, 03:08 AM   #130
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The last one? Where he took a long break?
the longest trail break ever.
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