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September 13th, 2017, 06:54 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
I always felt that MM was CS 2.0!
I felt you had an aneurism so I took it upon myself to edit your post.

Kudos to Rossi for changing his style because of Stoner and Marquez. But, MM rides much more like CS than Rossi. You rarely, if ever, see VR do things that CS or MM did/do on a regular basis. MM may be more aggressive than CS, but even Stoner crashed trying to pass Pedrosa for a win, when the "smart" thing was to take 20 points and lead the ship. Thus all three of these guys have a true race-to-win attitude. And bless them for it.

I am thinking JLo and Dovi will be racing for final position before this year is out. Too optimistic for the Spartan?
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:04 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Marquez is nothing like VR, thank Dog. Marc isn't vindictive, petulant, Machiavellian with every possible lever of power and influence off the track, particularly with the promoters or weaponizing the media, nor is he so dainty that he'll threaten to quit if he isn't given advantages to be "competitive". Rossi threatened to quit if he didn’t get Bridgestones, then again when he needed bailing out of Ducati, then as recent as this year after Silverstone where he knew Marc's blown engine gifted him a podium.

Marquez doesn't use his fans to jeer others either, in fact he tells his fans never to behave so poorly. Rossi on the other hand disavows himself from his fans, moreover, he actually blamed the riders getting booed as deserving of it because they "disrespected him". Selectively of course, because Rossi did tell his fans to stay the execution of Iannone after Phillip Island. You will remember Iannone was receiving death threats because Adrea raced Rossi, in violation of Rossi's unwritten rule, punishable by death apparently.

Marc doesn't try to kick riders on the track nor spectators on his scooter in the paddock. Marc doesn't fold at the first sign of pressure either, like Rossi has every time the title has gone to the last round. Marquez is up to the challenge of racing hard, unlike Rossi who becomes so flustered with getting passed several times that he quits racing and tries to ram his rival off the track like he did so infamously.

Marc doesn't bring the entire sport into disrepute by saying his rightful title was robbed; to then disparage the rider who actually earned it. Marc has never won a Mundialito. Marc doesn't accuse other riders of sandbagging when he was only good enough to finish fourth, like Rossi did at Valencia 15.

Marc doesn’t have the benefit of the promoters shielding him from the media by canceling press conferences, nor does he fail to show up to press conferences over fear of what they might ask him, unlike Rossi. Marquez would never appear before the media with fake charts and graphs and wave them around like Joseph McCarthy accusing others of conspiring against him.

Marquez hasn't used his influence to veto competitive teammates. He doesn't need or have an entourage of hangers-on leeching from his career, wasting race coverage to watch his pudgy buddy contort his face with all manner of expressions, a guy who shamelessly admitted to fabricate conspiracy theories.

Marquez doesn't go whining about hard passes then hypocritically tell other competitors "it's racing" when he gets one over like he did at Laguna 08. Marc doesn't eject on the track when he gets a whiff of a rival putting a hard pass on him then whine to race direction for being penalized like Rossi did to Zarco at COTA.

Marc doesn't put on a disingenuous act for the cameras whilst being conniving in reality. With Marc what you see is what you get, not some two-faced clown in the light; whilst a venomous malcontent going around tongue lashing his competitors privately for having the audacity to race him hard, like Rossie did to Pedrosa after Aragon.

Marc doesn’t call the tire manufacturer privately to influence them to trigger changes. If you recall it was a private conversation Rossi had with Michelin, at which time he was told he was the only one with the issue (which Rossi himself admitted during a press conference). Marc doesn't require special tires from Michelin to rack up artificial titles, he takes what they give him and races to the limit.

Marc doesn't go around promoting a discussion about unwritten rules not to race title contenders late into the season, which he could have done this weekend at Misano, Rossi did and even enlisted riders to agree, most ironically and now conveniently Petrucci. Marquez hasn't villainized his teammate, nor villainized other rivals that he has raced against. Rossi's has a long list of rivals he has made into hated figures, two of them currently racing.

Marquez doesn't have an army of Hack Oxleys writing favorable articles influencing public opinion when he has screwed up.

Actually, this would make a great game: how is Marquez not like Rossi?



If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you write about 10,000 words a week trashing Rossi - with respect, it's not normal.

Marquez has done some fairly lousy stuff too (which you used to write about at length, especially in 2013 when he was battling JL), but since your hatred for Rossi has intensified, you've decided to conveniently forget that aspect of his personality. I mean, the one-sided post you've authored above is quite strange to read...if you were serious about making a comparison, you'd of course mention Marc's promotion to Repsol Honda (that isn't favouritism?) after the rookie rule was scrapped, you'd mention his numerous infractions in MotoGP and Moto2 (e.g. Wilairot (which was borderline criminal), knocking off Corsi, running Luthi off at Qatar, JL at Jerez, Dani Pedrosa at Aragon, Espargaro at Catalunya, almost taking out the marshalls at Silverstone etc.

When you fail to mention these things, purport to write a list comparing Rossi's character with MM's (without mentioning some more obvious misconduct on MM's part), and exclusively write about the unadulterated evil of Rossi in striking black and white terms and with extraordinary volume, do you see why someone could consider your views to be more akin to be of someone motivated by hate, rather than of someone seeking to make a reasonable argument?

Gather the evidence for and against your argument. Weigh it, and make a conclusion on that basis. Don't conclude, then reverse-engineer the reasoning.

Last edited by RCV600RR; September 22nd, 2017 at 03:18 PM.
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:07 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
I felt you had an aneurism so I took it upon myself to edit your post.

Kudos to Rossi for changing his style because of Stoner and Marquez. But, MM rides much more like CS than Rossi. You rarely, if ever, see VR do things that CS or MM did/do on a regular basis. MM may be more aggressive than CS, but even Stoner crashed trying to pass Pedrosa for a win, when the "smart" thing was to take 20 points and lead the ship. Thus all three of these guys have a true race-to-win attitude. And bless them for it.

I am thinking JLo and Dovi will be racing for final position before this year is out. Too optimistic for the Spartan?
Yeah, in terms of riding style, MM is very much like CS.

I was thinking more in terms of their approach to racing. MM seems to relish the battle with similar gusto to Rossi, and has that natural charisma and social cleverness.

Stoner loved smashing 'em by 10 seconds.

Last edited by RCV600RR; September 22nd, 2017 at 03:13 PM.
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:15 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Yeah, in terms of riding style, MM is very much like CS.

I was thinking more in terms of their approach to racing. MM seems to relish the battle with similar gusto to Rossi.

Stoner loved smashing 'em by 10 seconds.
IMO only of course but to me, MM is an advancement of the CS riding style in some aspects but I do wonder how much of this is down to his greater use of electronics than did CS?

Not criticising MM against CS here either but I would love to know just where the difference made by the electronics imposition is between the two.

As for battles, well CS definitely prefers to win by a mile, not a metre and for mine I quite enjoy when a rider hits the zone and can do that just as much as I can enjoy the battles. Yes MM seems to enjoy the battles much in the manner that VR did in years past but since the return to Yamaha VR has tried to avoid the battles where possible )when you compare battles since return to battles prior to leaving), which I take as his acknowledgement that the other riders are a higher standard
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:17 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
IMO only of course but to me, MM is an advancement of the CS riding style in some aspects but I do wonder how much of this is down to his greater use of electronics than did CS?

Not criticising MM against CS here either but I would love to know just where the difference made by the electronics imposition is between the two.

As for battles, well CS definitely prefers to win by a mile, not a metre and for mine I quite enjoy when a rider hits the zone and can do that just as much as I can enjoy the battles. Yes MM seems to enjoy the battles much in the manner that VR did in years past but since the return to Yamaha VR has tried to avoid the battles where possible )when you compare battles since return to battles prior to leaving), which I take as his acknowledgement that the other riders are a higher standard
Nakamoto reckons CS's throttle control was much better.

CS is better on exit, MM is better on entry.
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:22 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Nakamoto reckons CS's throttle control was much better.

CS is better on exit,
Without a doubt
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:27 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCV600RR View Post
Nakamoto reckons CS's throttle control was much better.

CS is better on exit, MM is better on entry.
To me, and emphasis on me here I reckon that CS is less 'spectacular' on entry but equally effective. He is/was more inline (despite being so far out of line) than is Marquez who just seems to have gone a step further, although how much is down to rubber is a valid question

That said, I saw a pic this week of CS sideways on a Panigale at the tests and man that bike looked good



Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKnockdown View Post
Without a doubt
Well the withdrawal method does stop accidents Jkd
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:30 PM   #118
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Look up the article with Nakamoto in Italian on GPOne "Stoner genio, Marquez no".

He discusses Stoner and MM's corner exit strategies, including their use of traction control.

He says that the acceleration achieved by Stoner's use of the throttle was "the best possible according to the laws of physics"!!!
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:36 PM   #119
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May have already read it (have seen a few where Nakamoto constantly talks about CS' use of little electronics and his throttle control ............ I have seen a lot of comments from Nakamoto who was, well 'infatuated' with CS and what he could do on a bike, much like the Preziosi, Gabbarini of the world. When you see/read from that level it is often interesting to see their comparisons although I do always read with a taint of 'who is their current rider' if they mention that rider as you would not want to risk harming the working relationship

IMO here but it is a shame that relationship ended the way it did
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September 22nd, 2017, 03:39 PM   #120
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Stoner could have been better on the breaks.
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