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June 10th, 2017, 08:42 AM   #81
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I expect Lorenzo on podium
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June 10th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
This sounds odd to me, since I am not particularly a "fan" of Jlo. Thus "boundless optimism" is not really what I feel. The Ducati is better than most around here seem to think, and Lorenzo is adapting. He must have some skill to win three Championships against some tough competition, don't you think? And you add those twos together and you get four. But, I will give him fifth with my "optimism" for this year. Sixth is probably more realistic with the mediocre start. But, like Pedrosa, if he gets in a groove, he is very consistent.
I'd hazard that nobody here is underestimating the Ducati. It's just a question of it's competence relative to the better sorted Japanese bikes.

Re: Lorenzo's talent; again, nobody here is selling him short. Remember, Mr. 9-times world champion is not without talent, and yet he never did shit on the Ducati. Lorenzo is essentially defined by his riding style, and shows little evidence of being able to adapt. Everyone keeps expecting the second coming of Casey Stoner; as yet it hasn't happened. I think if Stoner hadn't kicked ass the way he did on the Duc, neither Rossi or Lorenzo would have been foolhardy enough to try and duplicate his results.

In the event - Lorenzo won't break into the top four at the end of the season and it won't be due to lack of skills.
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June 10th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
I'd hazard that nobody here is underestimating the Ducati. It's just a question of it's competence relative to the better sorted Japanese bikes.

Re: Lorenzo's talent; again, nobody here is selling him short. Remember, Mr. 9-times world champion is not without talent, and yet he never did shit on the Ducati. Lorenzo is essentially defined by his riding style, and shows little evidence of being able to adapt. Everyone keeps expecting the second coming of Casey Stoner; as yet it hasn't happened. I think if Stoner hadn't kicked ass the way he did on the Duc, neither Rossi or Lorenzo would have been foolhardy enough to try and duplicate his results.

In the event - Lorenzo won't break into the top four at the end of the season and it won't be due to lack of skills.
You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
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June 10th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
Please, you didn't notice the heavy braking and corner entry change for Lorenzo till I told you.
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June 10th, 2017, 12:14 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
You are underestimating Ducati right here. Of course it's always compared to someone else, or it isn't racing. Who had two bikes on the Podium last week? Who has two bikes on the front row for tomorrow? Who has six bikes in the top ten grid positions this week? It ain't BMW.

Lorenzo break into the top four? I said he would finish fifth or sixth. So you are agreeing, or are you saying he won't ever finish a race in the top four?

You should watch today's activities again. Lorenzo is changing, just like Rossi changed to stay competitive. Watch his corner entry after heavy braking. It is very different for him. It is similar to how Bayliss and other Superbike riders throw the bike into the corner with a taller shoulder. And neither the rules nor the machines are the same from when Stoner or Rossi rode for Ducati. The correlation is only that Rossi and Lorenzo rode a winning Yamaha before going to Ducati.
Dude - now you're starting to ask me to argue against things I never implied. I never said, Ducati isn't racing. I said they're not capable, as yet, of being as competitive as the better sorted out bikes; hence won't win a championship until they do a radical redesign of the engine.

As to whether or not "it isn't racing" - the bar is not too high. I mean, the guy on the slowest bike on the track is technically racing; but he ain't winning.

Re: Last week... there are always going to be anomalous, perfect storm weekends, where enough riders on Jap bikes DNF or have the flu or get taken out and an unexpected rider ends up on the podium. Christ, even Crutchlow managed to win a race once. But no rider since Stoner has managed to put the Duc at the top of the podium - consistently. We all would like to see Ducati win a championship - but I don't believe it's going to happen with the current engine. Full disclosure - I don't believe in Santa Claus either.

Read my post again. I said Lorenzo won't end up as high as fourth in the overall championship points at end of season.

And why muddy the water re: BMW. Fuck man, they're not even in the series. Ducati have a pedigree in this racing class that the other Italian bikes don't come close to. They should be doing better. Look how competitive Vinales was on the Suzuki last year and they've just barely returned to the arena.

And while the Duc has undergone many iterations, the core issue holding it back since the beginning of the four-stroke era, remains the same. It's the over-large, awkward engine configuration that no rider other than Stoner (who was properly burned out from doing so) has been able to adequately compensate for - sufficient to win a championship. Rossi didn't and neither will Lorenzo. I'd bet money on it.

Last edited by Keshav; June 10th, 2017 at 01:13 PM.
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June 10th, 2017, 02:55 PM   #86
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Rossi's tyre

Last edited by Gaz; June 10th, 2017 at 04:48 PM.
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June 10th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #87
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I want Cal to win it and a webcam pointing at JPS when he does
Gaz, you mistakenly think I would be bothered if he wins any more races.

I wasn't bothered by him winning last year by any means.

Hard to believe, but I can think he is a piece of shit after the way he handled his Ducati stint and not be much bothered by him winning races.
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June 10th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Oh really? I'd like to see you ride a race bike. Anyway shit doesn't have legs and if it did it'd be diarrhoea, which is what your comment is, verbal diarrhoea.
I'm just calling it like I see it...a quality of Cal's that was being held up in this topic.
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June 10th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Gaz, you mistakenly think I would be bothered if he wins any more races.

I wasn't bothered by him winning last year by any means.

Hard to believe, but I can think he is a piece of shit after the way he handled his Ducati stint and not be much bothered by him winning races.

You take some things waaaaaaay to personal as opposed to pisstake mate.


And I say that as no matter how brutal you have been with riders, you also do not fail to give credit where due thus I know full well that if Crutchlow gets a good result through effort, ability and skill you will credit him just as you have in the past.
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June 10th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #90
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Lorenzo at T1
https://i.redd.it/q17mb2x83t2z.gif


Marquez falls

https://streamable.com/ab6tm

https://streamable.com/t7gy3

Last edited by Gaz; June 10th, 2017 at 03:21 PM.
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