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May 21st, 2017, 03:49 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
I think that they should bring both tyres so riders could have a choice....however, that was not the outcome of the vote by a huge margin....

Perhaps if JLo stopped bitching so much as about other riders or thinking he is above all the others in some way that he might have more sway with them when he needs their support....like on this vote......
Funny how JLo couldnt even influence Dovi, Petrux, Redding, Bautista, Barbera or ABraham to vote his way...but at least he was able to influence Baz to his Ducati cause...
Like others, you really can't hide your dislike of riders who have dared to beat Rossi to titles can you?

So why should Lorenzo not be peeved about the tyre of his preference being removed mid-season yet again, dress it up as democratic though Dorna have attempted to do yet again?

Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2017 at 04:40 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 03:56 AM   #72
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Why some people think changing tires in midseason is perfectly acceptable is beyond me.

If there was a true safety need involved with changing tires, I would have no issue with it.

But this all got started because one rider with far too much influence did like not the carcass of the 2017 tire.
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May 21st, 2017, 04:50 AM   #73
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Why can't riders have a vote on all sorts of technical regulation. If they can have a democratic vote on tyres, why not the winglets, minimum weight or pit to rider communication.

Better yet, why not get the riders opinions on penalties and adopt the majority. Lets see what the penalty should be for causing a rider to fall, a rider racing against a championship contender, someone continually dawdling on the racing line during quali or a rider gaining advantage by running off track.

Now the precendent has been set, will we see another vote when Lorenzo or Dani expresses his preference for a different tyre. Will Michelin offer the vote to see if #70 is the correct choice in 4 rounds time as they have done this time. If not, why not. They voted pre season for a tyre, and they voted after round 4 review. When is the next vote? Seems a lot of trouble to go to for something as simple as a tyre, after all everyone has the same and there is no advantage to be gained on spec rubber according to a few on here.
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May 21st, 2017, 05:00 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33 Coupe View Post
Why can't riders have a vote on all sorts of technical regulation. If they can have a democratic vote on tyres, why not the winglets, minimum weight or pit to rider communication.

Better yet, why not get the riders opinions on penalties and adopt the majority. Lets see what the penalty should be for causing a rider to fall, a rider racing against a championship contender, someone continually dawdling on the racing line during quali or a rider gaining advantage by running off track.

Now the precendent has been set, will we see another vote when Lorenzo or Dani expresses his preference for a different tyre. Will Michelin offer the vote to see if #70 is the correct choice in 4 rounds time as they have done this time. If not, why not. They voted pre season for a tyre, and they voted after round 4 review. When is the next vote? Seems a lot of trouble to go to for something as simple as a tyre, after all everyone has the same and there is no advantage to be gained on spec rubber according to a few on here.
Dani and Lorenzo having a vote granted for a tire of their own construct preference???

What sort of madness is this???

If that happened, I'd be looking out my window to see if the 7 trumpets have sounded and the end times are on us!
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May 21st, 2017, 05:39 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33 Coupe View Post
Why can't riders have a vote on all sorts of technical regulation. If they can have a democratic vote on tyres, why not the winglets, minimum weight or pit to rider communication.

Better yet, why not get the riders opinions on penalties and adopt the majority. Lets see what the penalty should be for causing a rider to fall, a rider racing against a championship contender, someone continually dawdling on the racing line during quali or a rider gaining advantage by running off track.

Now the precendent has been set, will we see another vote when Lorenzo or Dani expresses his preference for a different tyre. Will Michelin offer the vote to see if #70 is the correct choice in 4 rounds time as they have done this time. If not, why not. They voted pre season for a tyre, and they voted after round 4 review. When is the next vote? Seems a lot of trouble to go to for something as simple as a tyre, after all everyone has the same and there is no advantage to be gained on spec rubber according to a few on here.
Exactly.
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May 21st, 2017, 11:28 AM   #76
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Marquez is the most talented rider on the grid currently IMO.
Not any more he isn't.
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May 22nd, 2017, 12:47 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33 Coupe View Post
Why can't riders have a vote on all sorts of technical regulation. If they can have a democratic vote on tyres, why not the winglets, minimum weight or pit to rider communication.

Better yet, why not get the riders opinions on penalties and adopt the majority. Lets see what the penalty should be for causing a rider to fall, a rider racing against a championship contender, someone continually dawdling on the racing line during quali or a rider gaining advantage by running off track.

Now the precendent has been set, will we see another vote when Lorenzo or Dani expresses his preference for a different tyre. Will Michelin offer the vote to see if #70 is the correct choice in 4 rounds time as they have done this time. If not, why not. They voted pre season for a tyre, and they voted after round 4 review. When is the next vote? Seems a lot of trouble to go to for something as simple as a tyre, after all everyone has the same and there is no advantage to be gained on spec rubber according to a few on here.
It's because riders need confidence with the tires to do what they do, they literally commit their own physical integrity to them at avery single corner, so it's just right they can choose (and yes the Supplier should definitely give the choice to each rider rather than penalizing the minority!); for other issues there is the Safety Commission already where they have their say.

Then of course we all know that tires are the one single component that can influence the performance of the whole package the most, and in a dramatic way. So Manufacturers also could have preferences, but they cannot override their own riders, it wouldn't work. If a bike works better with a certain tire but their riders prefer another one, either the bike or the riders will have to be changed in order to gain optimal performance...
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May 22nd, 2017, 01:21 AM   #78
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Ah, conspiracies, conspiracies...

Just for the record: Michelin have to satisfy the top Manufacturers first, notably Honda and Yamaha. The French know this very well, they've done it for many years, always satisfying both. All those who know (and are honest) know perfectly well that even the famous SNS were given to both Honda and Yamaha factory teams; they were not designed for a specific rider (the very idea of designing a tire for a specific rider doesn't make sense, but we keep hearing such things!).

Of course among the types of tire that work well with a certain bike, riders will have their preferences, but that's secondary and riders usually can adjust within that range.

We have just seen that neither Rossi nor Vinales could perform in Jerez, for some (not yet clarified) tire-related reason; whereas both performed beautifully on the 006 tire at Le Mans, and you bet they will both perform as well on the 070 tire, -- why? Because both of these tires can suit the Yamaha M1, and that's what matters: the bike-tire synergy. If tehre is that synergy, riders can always adjust.

Bridgestone created havoc because they were outsiders, who developed a great tire working with another outsider (Ducati), causing the top riders of Yamaha and Honda to oblige their employers to break their allegiance to Michelin and get the superior Bridgestones.

Then Bridgestones promptly forgot Ducati and got busy working with Hnda and Yamaha, just as Michelin used to do (and do now). Honda twisted the regulations as they always do, to effectively neutralize Ducati, and then took Stoner. Ah! That's history.

Now Honda men have said that the Michelin 070 works better with their bike than the 006, a majority of riders voted for the 070, but for some it's all a Rossi conspiracy.
Yawn.
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May 22nd, 2017, 01:32 AM   #79
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J4, just with regards the SNS tyres I do recall some comments years back (late 80's, early 90's) where the topic was discussed relatively freely given that it was more widely recognised as occurring.

Yes, certainly the factory teams of the major players received preferential treatment in terms, but as I recall there were some riders who commented that the tyres were made for them, based on their feedback and data, with in some cases team mates having the same opportunity

It may be a 'lost in translation' type of thing but I recall a number of comments around that era, from different riders and different times and all were similar in that Michelin made tyres on an 'individual rider' (my words) basis rather than a team level (I suspect that other manufacturers may have followed suit)
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May 22nd, 2017, 02:13 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
Ah, conspiracies, conspiracies...

Just for the record: Michelin have to satisfy the top Manufacturers first, notably Honda and Yamaha. The French know this very well, they've done it for many years, always satisfying both. All those who know (and are honest) know perfectly well that even the famous SNS were given to both Honda and Yamaha factory teams; they were not designed for a specific rider (the very idea of designing a tire for a specific rider doesn't make sense, but we keep hearing such things!).

Of course among the types of tire that work well with a certain bike, riders will have their preferences, but that's secondary and riders usually can adjust within that range.

We have just seen that neither Rossi nor Vinales could perform in Jerez, for some (not yet clarified) tire-related reason; whereas both performed beautifully on the 006 tire at Le Mans, and you bet they will both perform as well on the 070 tire, -- why? Because both of these tires can suit the Yamaha M1, and that's what matters: the bike-tire synergy. If tehre is that synergy, riders can always adjust.

Bridgestone created havoc because they were outsiders, who developed a great tire working with another outsider (Ducati), causing the top riders of Yamaha and Honda to oblige their employers to break their allegiance to Michelin and get the superior Bridgestones.

Then Bridgestones promptly forgot Ducati and got busy working with Hnda and Yamaha, just as Michelin used to do (and do now). Honda twisted the regulations as they always do, to effectively neutralize Ducati, and then took Stoner. Ah! That's history.

Now Honda men have said that the Michelin 070 works better with their bike than the 006, a majority of riders voted for the 070, but for some it's all a Rossi conspiracy.
Yawn.
Apparently the 'real' reasons for the majority vote are too 'nuanced' for mere mortals like me to understand.
Personally my opinion is that the author of said 'nuanced' comment is too wrapped in ambition to create stories of underhand dealings, choiceless votes(despite 3 riders voting for something else) and general engineering of a 10th title etc, to notice how widely off the mark his accusations are.
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