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May 21st, 2017, 01:24 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloMars View Post
we're talking on different subject, Mike. I said, "70" tyre vote is fair. I'm pissed when Oxley can dodge every single argument on twitter, and made Rossi look like has made a fair competition through out his career.

On the other hand, I agree 100% that is wrong decision to switch tyre in mid season, unless there were safety issues. All I know is this regarding performance issue by Valentino Rossi in preseason, and MADE michelin to consider a tyre switch in mid season.

I think it comes down to "How much power VR had in the series" topic. He can do whatever he want, he get what he want, its an unfair advantage he had relative to other riders, but it is not cheating. (from kropo's post, long time ago).
It's not "cheating" because of the fictional validity for the rigging by way of legality, and in the case of this "vote" the pseudo-dignity offered it by this notion of democracy.

In other words, the cheating is made legal, and so by definition it's no longer cheating. When you walk into a casino, every possible advantage the house has is "legal"!

When Rossi competed on SNS, that was "legal". Therefore his overwhelming advantage, as lopsided as it was, was technically not cheating. When Michelin change the tire that Viņalez won the first two races with, like the tire change after Lorenzo went on that winning run with after Jerez in 2015, that change was "legal". When Michelin make and bring un-usable tire "options" to a race, effectively forcing most to acquiesce or take a tire gamble on conditions, that is "legal". It is legal, yes, but it is also a form of stacking the deck. The advantages the casino enjoys are legal. But in the settings of competition, it's legal bullshit.




Mat Oxley is a hack.

Last edited by Jumkie; May 21st, 2017 at 01:40 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
Rossi colluded with the Russians to make sure 20 other riders Rossi-subservient riders, including Marquez, all voted for tyre #70...Perfectly plausible...isn't it?


What i cant wait to see if Stoner at the Barcelona test being on the top 3 if not top on the GP17 with the #70 tyre....but that can't happen can it its a Rossi M1 only tyre...right?
What didn't you understand about the fair and reasonable outcome bring both tyres continuing to be available in the case of a mid season tyre change for other than safety reasons?

I am hardly the forum's biggest Vinales fan.

Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2017 at 01:41 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Not at all.

I said that firstly it was unfair to Vinales, and secondly that it was unfair to change tyre construction mid season when it disadvantages a leading contender who had used that tyre better than others who actually voted for said tyre previously.

Provide boyh tyres for the rest of the season, then I have no problem. How exactly is that biased or a conspiracy theory?

This is worse than 2012 imo, except for Stoner being correct in advance about the tyre being foisted on Honda and him being defective in that instance. At least then it was a pre-season thing with a period of grace/"evaluation", although about good old Loris's 3rd attempt at a tyre on which Stoner was not too fast for the rest of the field.
I agreed that both tyres should be available, the riders chose not to have both so your complaints should be addressed to them.
So you also think this was 'done for Rossi' ?
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May 21st, 2017, 01:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
So you propose that Rossi didn’t think Stoner was being honest about an inferior tire on the grounds of safety, therefore chose to promote said tire by dishonestly throwing his considerable influence in favor of it? And you propose this to be fair to Rossi as a case for his honest mistake in backing an unsafe tire?
I didn't think it was fair at all, in which regard I had a different opinion to you at the time, just that Rossi voted for the tyre in the belief that it would neither impede or help him, but would disadvantage Stoner, hardly noble, but not from what I can tell believing the tyre was an unsafe tyre in general. I doubt he would have voted for the tyre if he had actually known it would delaminate on him in a future race.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
There was a comment attributed to Lorenzo I saw somewhere (will see if I can find it again) where he states (and I am paraphrasing from memory) 'it seems like the powerful riders got their way again'.

So it isn't just here that feels conspiracy
See the pre-event press conference for La Mans. He basically reiterates the point you're trying to remember. In the presser he said, if we're going to change the tire to accommodate "a rider's complaint" then we should also provide the tires for those who want the other tire.

The point is obvious, though as you can see from Migs & Daniboy's response above, it's far too nuanced for them.

Here are your choices:

A: ●#70
B: ●

(You can't tell, but B is almost identical but slightly inferior to A.)

Vote.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:39 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
What didn't you understand about the fair and reasonable outcome bring both tyres continuing to be available in the case of a mid:season tyre change for other than safety reasons?

I am hardly the forum's biggest Vinales fan.
I think that they should bring both tyres so riders could have a choice....however, that was not the outcome of the vote by a huge margin....

Perhaps if JLo stopped bitching so much as about other riders or thinking he is above all the others in some way that he might have more sway with them when he needs their support....like on this vote......
Funny how JLo couldnt even influence Dovi, Petrux, Redding, Bautista, Barbera or ABraham to vote his way...but at least he was able to influence Baz to his Ducati cause...
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May 21st, 2017, 01:40 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by danski View Post
I agreed that both tyres should be available, the riders chose not to have both so your complaints should be addressed to them.
So you also think this was 'done for Rossi' ?
I was not aware it was a one or both vote. If it was, please cite
your source, just for my own information if this comes up in the future; I have been reliably informed by one of your fellow travellers that the 2012 tyre vote didn't actually occur after all.

Even if so, my whole point is that a mid season vote to remove an existing tyre is not to put too fine a point on it complete billdhit in the first place. If there are safety issues then there shouldn't be a vote either, and hasn't been one to my knowledge.

Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2017 at 02:52 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:47 AM   #58
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Exactly Michael. It was a one or the other vote, pretty simple. Even the obvious is missed by Rossi appologists.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:48 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
I think that they should bring both tyres so riders could have a choice....however, that was not the outcome of the vote by a huge margin....

Perhaps if JLo stopped bitching so much as about other riders or thinking he is above all the others in some way that he might have more sway with them when he needs their support....like on this vote......
Funny how JLo couldnt even influence Dovi, Petrux, Redding, Bautista, Barbera or ABraham to vote his way...but at least he was able to influence Baz to his Ducati cause...
I agree that Lorenzo's predicament is to influence other riders to help him counteract Rossi's influence over Dorna. Unfortunately, the influence Rossi has over Dorna is far to heavy, weighing perhaps the amount of a motorhome.

If Lorenzo's response to Miller's rude comment in public is bitching, then by your standard, Rossi has got to be King Bitch. Please Zarco, don't race me so hard. Don't you know the Unwritten Rule?
payne by name and NJIRK like this.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:48 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I was not aware it was a one or both vote. If it was, please cite
your source, just for my own information if this comes up in the future; I have been reliably informed by one of your fellow travellers that the 2012 tyre vote didn't actually occur after all.

Even if so, my whole point is that a mid season vote to remove an existing tyre is not to put too fine a point on it complete billdhit in the first place. If there are safety issues then there shouldn't be a vote either, and hadn't been one to my knowledge.
Roll drums.....
Tada..

MotoGP France: Michelin: Riders voted against having both tyres | MotoGP 0
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